LDS author says he faces excommunication after writing ‘Letter to a CES Director’

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SALT LAKE CITY -- It's a letter that's been viewed hundreds of thousands of times, and the LDS author who wrote it says he now faces excommunication from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jeremy Runnells wrote the popular piece: "letter to a CES [Church Education System] director."

In the letter, Runnells outlined his questions, concerns, and doubts about various LDS beliefs. Now, he claims the LDS Church's response was to challenge his membership.

"I asked questions, I shared my concerns, and I shared facts and information that are backed by the church's sources and the church's essays," Runnell said at an event in Salt Lake City. "So if sharing truth, and publicly, is in opposition to the church, then I think that's a problem."

Runnells' disciplinary council with his church leaders is scheduled for this Sunday, the same day a vigil is being organized for him in the event he is excommunicated.

FOX 13 News has reached out to the LDS Church for comment, but has yet to hear back from them.

117 comments

  • Shari

    Disgusting that this faith has any room to kick someone out over doubting, and asking questions. Such a shame when faced with REAL questions their only defense is to threaten to or truly excommunicate a member.
    Slimy disgusting faith. Sir, your better off away from them

    • thisisajoke

      I shared my concerns, and I shared facts and information that are backed by the church’s sources and the church’s essays,” Runnell said at an event in Salt Lake City. “So if sharing truth, and publicly, is in opposition to the church, then I think that’s a problem.”

      So, he states that his facts and information are the same as the church’s sources and essays…. So it must not be that he sharing some knowledge or info that the church didn’t know about or was hiding…. It was that he has come to the “conclusions” that the church truth claims are false and is now promoting those conclusions….

      So the problemed is not “sharing truth, and publicly, is in opposition to the church”, but that it is aggressively promoting a conclusion….

      That conclusion might well be right, and might well be the most logical explanation after looking at all the evidence, but his narrative of what is happening here is as much lies and deception as he claims the LDC truth claims are.

      • Crux

        I’m a disaffected Mormon. I know and respect Jeremy and appreciate all he has done for this community. But I agree with you here, THISISAJOKE. He knew what he was doing. He chose this role long ago. His questions and intentions may have started out innocent, but those motives and intentions have shifted dramatically. I understand this PR fiasco, but this deception bothers me. Why can’t he say “I learned the truth and am standing by it?”

      • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

        CRUX- At the present I am not a dissaffected Mormon, but I am glad that you realize that this is dishonesty. It feels Dehlinish to me. I have no problem with him coming to his conclusions and promoting them through his website/letter. But be a man with convictions and stand behind your decision to leave the Mormon church, don’t pretend that you are still just asking questions.

      • Mr. Dubious

        While I understand your point, I have to respectfully disagree. You may not like the narrative, but unfortunately the narrative is the only reason this is getting coverage. Why is coverage important? Because the church has covered up the truth for most of it’s history. The church I grew up believing in does not remotely resemble the real church. You can only find the information in church publications if you know where to look, and what you are looking for. The CES Letter simply brings the problems to the forefront, and those who read it or other publications like it finally have both sides of the story and can actually choose whether or not to believe. Jeremy’s fight is less about proving the church is wrong and more about trying to force the church to be honest. Without people like Jeremy actively pushing for change, the church would never have released the essays on lds.org, the Joseph Smith Papers, or shown the rock that Joseph put in his hat so he could translate the Book of Mormon. If you don’t know any of the dirty secrets, then you really haven’t made an informed choice.

      • William

        Mr. Dubious, I learned all of these “dirty little secrets” in a religion class at BYU. Most of what you call dirty little secrets are things that happened at a different time and in a different society than we have now. Many of the rest of them are you claiming to know better how God works than the rest of us do.
        The fact is that if you keep relying on the Lord to renew and refresh your testimony, these “dirty little secrets” are easily understood as you seek answers while trusting Him instead of looking for answers that can cause conflict. Anyone cans twist or even misunderstand or misapply the truth to “cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them.”
        Not actively sharing all of the information with the world is not the same as covering things up. It’s only been in the last decade that the Church has even upgraded to modern technology. The only organization in the world that was still using DOS in 2006 was the LDS Church. My point is that they haven’t really had a great way to share all of this information until fairly recent history, made even more recent by their slow upgrades to current technology.

    • rediculousnews

      SHARI… I am a member who is currently doubting and asking questions… However, I am in no danger of getting kicked out of the church. Maybe that is because I am honestly doing it. And if I ever do not have hope in Jesus Christ or the restoration, I will do either 2 things, 1. No longer believe and go with my family to church and not actively oppose the truth claims. 2. Actively oppose the church truth claims, but be a MAN and resign because that is the ethical thing to do when you state that “you have left the church”

      Jesus in his ministery didn’t reject anyone from coming to him or reaching out with his message because of unbelief, but he also didn’t make those who rejected his truth claims one of his 12 apostles.

      • mrnirom1

        Jesus in his ministry had no church. It wasn’t until Chapter 17 in Matthew that he informed Peter that Revelation.. which Peter had received from the Father that Jesus was the Christ.. that he would build his church upon that rock. It was set up after he was resurrected. Besides, his mission was to the Jews.. those of his family lineage. it was expanded to all after his death.

    • t

      That’s the way they keep members in the dark. You can’t question the religion or you get tossed out. Once I opened my eyes to reality, I left. They should encourage members to debate the LDS church’s religion. If it’s a truly solid religion, then members won’t leave. But many do leave or stop going to church.

      • William

        You who leave the church sure are arrogant about your experience. Just because you learned about the history of the church and came to the conclusions you did, you seem to think that the rest of us are too stupid or ignorant to know the things that have happened in the Church’s history. Just because you were unable (or unwilling) to find answers in the scriptures, teachings of the prophets, and honest prayer doesn’t mean the rest of us haven’t ever considered these issues. I have learned many of the facts that the antis think only they know, and I have found satisfactory answers through my own personal searching within the context of the gospel.

    • Nick

      Did your six year old come to the conclusion that the Santa narrative wasn’t real?

      If so, grounding wasn’t the appropriate punishment. You should have first kicked him out of the house, then disowned him, then told everyone that he was unworthy and couldn’t be trusted so you shouldn’t listen to him. After all, asking your child why he left his belief in Santa behind is like interviewing Judas to learn about Jesus.

      • MrNirom

        I would not ground the 6 year old for questioning the reality of Santa Clause.. but I would his 15 year old brother for telling all those who do believe that they are wrong for doing so.. and then trying to do the same to all the children of the neighborhood, the city, the state and the world! It is one thing to question.. it is another to involve everyone else to question as well.

  • BlancheWhite142@aol.com

    Why is Jeremy Runnells facing excommunication while Cliven Bundy (who instigated insurrection against the federal government and still owes the American taxpayers over $1.5 million) and two of his sons (who lead an armed takeover of federal property that ended in one death and gross vandalism of public property) are still members in good standing?

    Does anyone in the church leadership have any sense of morality or proportion?

    • Matt

      It’s because the Bundy’s aren’t a threat to harm the church financially, whereas if people leave because of the CES letter then they don’t get as much tithing.

      • whatsayyou

        I don’t think it’s the money. They got plenty. More about the anger that someone would dare defy their authority. That’s why the Bundys are OK to engage in armed sedition as long as they still support church leaders. Excommunication? It’s just Sundays off and a 10% raise.

    • War Styx

      Lol… Don’t forget it was legal to kill Mormons (in some states that was on the book til the 1980’s) by consent and blessing of the government. Government has done some legal horrifying things to people slaves (black and white), Mormons and natives of this land just to mention a few. So when asking about the Bundy thing (who is occupying some shack) because the government created the problem… Why would the church say anything in secular affairs as that?

  • Eric

    Glad to see this is getting some coverage. This barbaric process will only stop when enough attention is brought to it. Let Jeremy decide his level of participation!

    • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

      what makes this barbaric? A group and individual coming together to see if their is any reason to continue a mutual agreed upon arrangement? It seems to me to be very merciful for the Church to have this counsel so that Jeremy can be free from this terrible fraud that he sees the LDS church as.

  • Anotherbob

    Hopefully he is excommunicated, it would be a huge blessing in disguise for him. I wish more would wake up, put the koolaid down and stop being slaves to a false religion. All religions are scams.

    • William

      Right! Encouraging people to serve and help each other, to live clean lives, and to be upstanding citizens for deeper reasons than you can understand is so disgusting! I can’t stand religions and their focus on helping people become better.

      • Stewart McDonald

        There are multiple Bobs and multiple Anotherbobs on this website. This specific Anotherbob has problems with his same sex attraction. His trade mark is his reference to koolaid.

  • bob

    Well…..yeah.

    If you’re a believing Mormon then you believe that Christ is personally the head of the Church and directs it through the Prophet.

    If you don’t believe that you don’t have a dog in the fight.

    I’m an atheist. I don’t have a dog in the fight. But if I were him I’d fully expect to get Ex’d. Duh. Why not? The only thing I don’t understand is why a guy who is obviously NOT a believing Mormon is worried about what they teach or what they believe. I’m certainly not. They can worship a gob of mud if they like. It’s none of my business.

  • SheepDog

    The issue at hand is not that he wrote an “open letter’ outlining some questions and is being kicked out. He has an entire website dealing with back and forth arguing and attempting to debunk every tenet of the church. Honest questioning is fine in the LDS church and should be in any group. Actively working to undermine basic tenets and beliefs is on a whole other level. If you work hard to undermine any group that you belong to, the group has every right to kick you out.

    • GS

      “I will tell you who the real fanatics are:
      they are they who adopt false principles and ideas as facts,
      and try to establish a superstructure upon a false foundation…
      If our religion is of this character we want to know it;
      we would like to find a philosopher who can prove it to us.”
      Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 272

      • MrNirom

        Ah… so you believe that Jeremy is “a philosopher who can prove it to us”? He proves nothing. He only has questions.. and then answers the questions based on anti-Mormon rhetoric.

        I was Catholic before becoming Mormon… as I am sure that those who convert to Mormonism were of some other faith before that… yet… I did not write some letter to the Catholic Church base on what anti-Catholics had to say. I have not written one bad word about my former faith. I have moved on. And yes.. I am the only member of LDS faith in my family.

    • HonestQuestions

      The problem with this is that all of his questions started off as honest questions. If you knew anything about his story you would know that he wrote his letter fully expecting that someone in the church would try to help him understand the very real issues with the church. No one in the church has made any kind of good faith attempt to answer his concerns. Jeremy has made it very clear that if the church had been open and honest with him he wouldn’t have done what he has. These are honest questions that many people in the church have and the more the leaders keep ignoring it and excommunicating people who are asking these questions, the more people they are going to loose. I don’t understand why the leadership’s default is to not even engage with people who have these kinds of soul wrenching questions. It seems like they are really ignorant of the kinds of spiritual crisis that is happening throughout the lives of many members of the church. Excommunication is a barbaric practice and most modern churches have realized that fact and ditched the practice. I can’t understand why the church it so behind the times on this. It makes no sense to me for a church that preaches the love of Jesus Christ to act in ways that seem to many to be so hateful.

      • No sir

        False….

        I asked many of the same questions as Jeremy and has answered given. Maybe not all as satisfactorily as I wished, but your narrative of his story is misleading. But to blatantly state that the church has failed to answer his questions is false. There are answers to his questions, maybe he isn’t convinced by some of them and maybe some of them were “I don’t know”… But to state that the church condemns you and excommunicates you for having doubts and questions is untrue.

        Jeremy has every right to not believe in the truth claims of the church. There are legitimate honest questions/doubts that one could have that would be a reasonable reason to stop believing in the church. But your narrative of Jeremy is pure spin

      • Stewart McDonald

        I’m sure that this apostate started out with honest questions. The question is when did he make the conscience decision to come out in rebellion against his church?

    • Rediculousnews

      Well, he got what he wanted from his press conference… Free publicity for his letter/book.

      The joke is that you will parrot the talking point that he is “just asking questions”…. Baloney…. He quit his job and started to work full time on his letter and website… Which they link in the article, so his business plan is working.

      I have questions/doubts about many things in his letter(didn’t have them from reading his letter) and talked to both leaders and lds scholars… They been nothing but supportive and respectful in helping me navigate my issues. What I didn’t do was send. 80 page letter to an elderly church employee and then publish it on the Internet.

      If I do leave the church because of unbelief and want to oppose its truth claims, I’ll resign like a man with convictions. Not become a pseudo-Martin Luther to my secular sheep followers.

      In his Mormon stories podcast, he states that “when I left the church”, so why are people holding a candlelight vigil for someone who’s doesn’t believe in Jesus or the restoration, taking steps that a real honest man would take by resigning.

      The LDS church can’t stop his from publishing or researching whatever he likes, so there is no freedom of speech issues. In addition, he states that he no longer believes, so why is this news….?

      Pathetic that the media falls for this trap…

    • Pablosomething

      An author plugging his book for big money using the church? I didn’t realize we were talking about the first presidency and Q12.

  • ANOTHER-ANOTHERBOB

    If Mr. Runnells no longer believes in his church why didn’t he remove his name from the records of that church long before now? There have been many who have apostatized in the past, and there will be many who will apostatize in the future. Nothing new here.

  • ANOTHER-ANOTHERBOB

    In Jesus’s day many of those who professed believe in God refused to believe in the words of His Son and thought it might be a good idea to nail Jesus to a wooden cross. This same mentality exists today.

  • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

    How will this harm Jeremy Runnells in any way??????? 1. He will lose the benefits of the Church. (He doesn’t believe the church and has “left it” in his own words. He can still participate in church activities and events if he so chooses, as long as he doesn’t prostelyze his views while there) 2. It will be a scarlett letter for him to his family and friends (I doubt anyones view of him as a Mormon will change if he is excommunicated. By very publicly promoting his website/letter/beliefs he has made it known that he is no longer a believing LDS) 3. He will be forced to attend an inquisisition like counsel (pretty sure no one has a gun to his head forcing him to go) 4. He will be forced into silence (no he will continue as a full time employee to his letter)

    • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

      pretty sure one of the headlines below is that 1500 people resigned over the church’s policy change…. seems like this would have been a perfect time for Mr. Runnels to do the ethical thing and follow his concience and resign from what he considers a fraud religion

  • ANOTHER-ANOTHERBOB

    Since Runnells no longer believes in his religion is he complaining about being excommunicated from it or is he bragging about it?

  • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

    I ususally make teaser trailers to my honestly seeking questions and doubts

  • Stewart McDonald

    In the days of Noah when the people had all become wicked God baptized the earth with water and destroyed His misbehaving children. Apostasy is not new but the results are always predictable.

    • Nate Cook

      Oh, are you referring to the time that God created mankind imperfectly and gave them agency, knowing full well they would use that agency imperfectly? Then when humans acted exactly how they were designed (in fact they could not have acted any differently because that’s how God made them) God threw a childish temper-tantrum and brutally tortured and murdered everyone (including innocent babies, toddlers, nursing mothers, kittens, puppies, bunnies etc..) except for 8 people? #throwbackthursday #goddrownedbabiesandyoustillworshipthefreak

  • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

    Mr. Dubious….. wrong… maybe in the past they could have been more open about some events… However, the narrative is false. As someone who respects people who struggle with these issues and understand when they leave, this narrative of Jeremy Runnells is BALONEY

    • Mr. Dubious

      You imply I don’t respect the struggles people go through when leaving, but I absolutely do. I was one of them. Many of the questions raised in the CES letter are questions I had. You imply that he never believed, which is false. He believed for 30 years, and when he found problems that needed answers the church was not there to answer them. Whether or not he believed in the church while compiling the CES Letter has no bearing on the fact that at one time he did believe, and he did try to find answers, and that is what the letter reflects. That desire to find truth is something we all can relate to. Challenging authority when presented with facts is what brings about change, and the Mormon Church is in dire need of change.

      • Stewart McDonald

        It is laughable when human beings try to explain where God has it all wrong. It’s like a 2-year old trying to tell her dad that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

      • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

        I have had many of the same issues as in the CES letter (not b/x of it) So you can’t say I don’t understand… However, my experiences have been totally different than Jeremy’s. People have been supportive and have tried to answer these questions. Some better than others. Maybe b/c I don’t believe President Monson should personally receive a revelation over why such and such in the BOM. I’m ok with him not knowing and not being a 1) hypocrite or 2) false prophet. I might decide the church is false, but I can understand that people might come to the opposite opinion and not have the same view of God and how he works as me

  • Ed

    I was a member of the LDS church for 25 years. My whole premise for becoming a member was, “Revelation”. I believed that the church was restored through revelation from God. After moving to a new city, we were just getting ready to start going to our new Ward when I came upon some information that crushed the thing I held most sacred. Members will understand some of the wording I am about to use. The sacred signs and tokens, the issuing of new names, the knocking 3 times, the compass, the square, the 3 degrees of glory and even the penalties – which new temple goers will not understand – are NOT revelations from God to JS. BUT, stolen from the ceremonies of the Free Masons. That just opened the door for me to look into more of the church teachings and found, I’ve been lied to. I have no regrets, I became a good person because of this journey, my belief in Jesus Christ was solidified on this walk. And by the Grace of God, I am Free.

    • Stewart McDonald

      Lehi mentioned he saw you when he partook of the fruit of the Tree of Life. You also partook, then saw those in the large building laughing at you. Thereafter you left and joined them. You story is an old one Ed.

    • David Whittington

      Excellent comments Ed. I have traveled the same path you have traveled. I was 25 years old before I learned JS was a 32nd Degree Freemason. Freemasonry was a huge part of JS’s life, but ‘The Church’ totally sweeps the JS and Freemasonry saga under the rug. Why is this ? I will tell you why. JS CLEARLY stole many Freemasonry rituals and incorporated these rituals into Temple rituals. Anyone who denies this FACT is simply a fool. JS wasn’t a ‘prophet’, he was a thief.

      • Stewart McDonald

        Testimonies are like plants David. At one time you said you had one. If you don’t water, fertilize and nurish plants they will eventually die. The path to apostasy is well marked, and it is the path you chose.

      • David Whittington

        Yo Stew My Boy: I am not an ‘apostate’ – I am a seeker of truth. And the sad truth for you is you have spent a large part of your life praising a con man and thief and sexual deviant and calling him a ‘prophet’. This con man had sex with over 40 different women and he copied verbatim Freemason rituals and incorporated these stolen rituals into Temple rituals. This con man etched symbols on to sheets of brass and he called these ‘the golden plates’. This con man used a ‘magic rock’ to supposedly translate the etched symbols (that he had made himself) into English. This con man used a ‘hit man’ to have as many as twenty-five people murdered. Anyone who thinks this con man was a prophet is a fool. How can ANY sane person call this con man a prophet ? The thing you call a ‘testimony’ is what I would call ‘insanity’. You need to STOP watering and fertilizing your insanity.

      • 123...here comes secular humanist bad jokes

        I think intelligent people can look at the evidence and come to different conlusion than you…. And many of your conclusions, while might be true, are in no way verified by any evidence

      • Stewart McDonald

        @DAVID WHITTINGTON
        Were you wrong when once you testified as to the truth of your faith, or are you wrong now when you deny what once you believed?

      • ERIC ANDERSON

        David Whittington says “I am not an apostate”. Actually David if you Google the defintion you are. An apostate is a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle. That is what you did isn’t it David?

      • David Corrigan

        Joseph Smith took some of the ancient rituals from the Free Mason ceremonies because he as a prophet realized the parts that were once a part of true ancient temple rites. That’s all. Just restored to their proper place.

    • ERIC ANDERSON

      Meanwhile the LDS Church continues to grow as more find truth in the Book of Mormon. Discerning people separate fact from fiction and observe the benefits that come into their lives. Those who apostize, and there are many, search without success for the happiness they once enjoyed.

      • Stewart McDonald

        @BRYAN
        Umm, there is a great difference between pleasure and joy. I’ve no doubt that you feel greater pleasure …… but what about the deep down inner joy?

  • John Doe

    Anyone who actually does any real research has an answer to every single one of his questions. ONCE AGAIN it comes down to faith. If you don’t believe then don’t believe and leave everyone else alone.

    • Bryan

      I notice this tone a lot (and used to parrot it myself when I was a member): “If you don’t believe then go away!”
      Everyone loved hearing what I had to say when it was complimentary to the Church. I was immediately rejected (even by a large part of my own family) when I raised questions. The LDS faith is brittle and can’t withstand the piercing questions that things like the CES Letter raise. This is why they seem to be desperate to avoid contact with those who have done the research and ask the hard questions. My brother brought the CES Letter to my attention, and I’m glad he did. I found that I was wasting a lot of time, money, and effort invested into a false church. Now, about half of my family has left the church (cousins, nephews, etc). I’m grateful that people in my family that had questions didn’t just leave the church quietly. I’m glad they reached out to me loudly and with vigor.

  • Michelle Welchman

    William,

    Apparently, people seem to resign from that Church for any number if reasons. Not just because they are arrogant of experience. That may be just a little arrogant of you to say. I know people who were very observant, very active and devout and very knowledgeable of the Church. One day, they just became very disillusioned over some things and not necessarily church beliefs..over maybe other issues. They were the last I would have thought to resign. Unless you know exactly what their circumstances are and are in their position to know why, its a free democratic country still, resigning from a church is purely their choice, than you should not be judging them on their arrogance of experience. I’ll tell you what..I have thought of it to. I’m a three decade WW2 German war researcher, semi professional. I’m also Jewish. Converted when I married my now ex husband 13 years ago. I do much research and I read a lot and I tend to come across things. I found in my research travels in the Desert News, two interesting articles dated 1936-7. Unless Desert News is propaganda or not a credible source of which I very much doubt. The publication has always had a good credible reputation. These two articleswere depicting how the LDS Church back then, was backing not just a little but very seriously supporting and showing very strong support for Hitler’s anti Jewish policies. Worse, missionaries serving in Germany knew people were being persecuted and they were all too happy to show off their so called Aryan identities to Nazi officials. This was rather dammning. Still even worse, the Church then, had a very strong sense of anti semitisim. Still more worse, former missionary president Alfred C. Reese in post war 145-150 or so, continued handing hat pamphlets on the Jews to gain recruits and promote the Church. You most probably aren’t even remotely aware of this vignette of sordid war era history. After all, because its easy to deny, its been swept under the rug for seven decades or so. However negative the history, it can’t be kept under the rug forever. Eventually, it will show up, as it mist certainly did. I had discovered it. Can you imagine, William, for just one moment, what it must be like for a Jew who had family lost in the war, to discover this dark morsel of war era history in the Church’s history? Historians have a name for this: we call it complicity. No matter how minor, its complicity. Its participation, no matter to what degree. Just like with these war criminals being brought to justice. They may be very old men, but they are still guilty. They may have been just following orders, they were instrumental and still guilty. They may say’ oh I was a camp cook or electrician..I did not know what was happening’. They were there, particpated, still guilty. Same, exact logic. Do know I did my masters on complicity. When I confronted the bishop about this, I was very disturbed. I thought the least of all entities would have anything to do with this dangerous regime. He tried to make up some reason or excuse to satisfy what I found. But I was not swayed. I reminded him by saying, “its in YOUR history not mine. Why is that”? I reminded him by saying and showing him the articles Desert News is and was not Dr. Joseph Göebbels, the propaganda specialist, thankfully. Desert News, to my knowledge was not a Whermacht or Nazi or SS publication at that time. Dear Strummer (The Storm was). It was not a lie or promoted propaganda. Desert News us and was a very credible publication. Why would they publish these articles dated 1936-7? I asked him if he thought the publication wasa lie? He really could not answer my questions nor provide remotely a satisfactory answer other than to deny the Church’s complicity. I expected that. It matters not so much about what is now in the present, the past is a permanent record of events and history. As a Jewish convert, to find this in LDS Church history of ALL places, of literally all places was to say the least, very disturbing indeed. So I can understand fully this man Mr. Runnell. I’m sure he presented his findings very honestly. He sounds like the type of man who does research. I’m sure that his findings were credible and not propaganda, and when he presented them, same thing. Deny it and just forget it and don’t ask, or given the door. That’s the way things get handled by those who can’t face the truth and are threatened by it. Sad shame.

  • bob

    Why would anyone who claims to be a believing Mormon argue with the leadership?

    And does anyone who isn’t a believing Mormon care what the Mormons do or say or believe in?

    Two mysteries I’ll never live to see solved.

      • bob

        I did. that’s why I said what I said. He’s not a Mormon, so why would he care if he gets kicked out? And why would he argue with them?

        I don’t believe what they believe. The difference is that I would never presume to argue with them. Nor does it matter to me at all whether or not I’m on their books. I don’t consider it to be a significant enough issue to notice one way or the other.

        This clown is just selling books.

      • Bryan

        @BOB, I’m guessing you weren’t a life-long member of the LDS Church, had your entire identity, sense of self worth, hopes, dreams, life trajectory, money, time, and effort invested in the Church. Those of us who did spend the better part of our lives mired in significant self-imposed sacrifice for a institution that we were raised to believe was the one and only true church of god on the planet aren’t quite so willing to go out with stoic silence. The church is false, its doctrines are false, the founder was not a prophet (or even a respectable guy). Yet we were taught from a young age to sacrifice everything if necessary to build up the “Kingdom of God” (aka the Mormon Church). So, ya, turns out the church is false and we made all those sacrifices for nothing. Considering that, I guess we (disaffected former members) feel some entitlement to expressing our disbelief and regret in the Church without being accused of being overly sensitive or petty.

  • Capsaicin1

    Oh please. Act a little more “innocent.” He knows exactly what hes doing. If he was already on his way out, he wouldnt have publicly challenged church doctrine.

  • Scott Robison

    I wonder how many of those “hundreds of thousands” of views were encouraged under false pretenses. A large number of people in my stake received a forged email supposedly from our stake president in January claiming “Due to the difficult times with troubling information about the church around us we encourage you all
    to read this letter to become informed about issues that may come up in discussions about the church. We encourage you to visit cesletter.com and read the pdf found there.”

    Obviously this email was not from our stake presidency.

    The email concluded with a quote: “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation.” -Apostle J. Reuben Clark

    I wholeheartedly agree with that quote, but in like fashion, legitimate questions are at best harmed when deception is used to promote them, if there ever was any value to them to begin with.

    Note: I’m not saying the author of cesletter is the party who sent the email. As with most spam, it was forged in such a way that it is difficult to know who sent it. *IF* he was involved in sending it, then he was in the wrong. If other people sent it on his behalf trying to help him, all they do is hurt his cause.

  • Ignatius

    This has nothing to do with this man in particular but standard church policy. There are certain fundamental doctrines and principles(asked when one is to receive a temple recommend) which if you do not believe then you can not be a member of the church. before one is baptised you are asked those same questions and if you don’t answer those questions in the affirmative you cannot be baptised. So if the media and those that want to hold a vigil are so much concerned about this guy then they should hold vigils every day when we do baptismal interviews and some people are not baptised. If you do not believe in God the Father, In His Son Jesus Christ and in the Gift of the Holy Ghost then you cannot be a member of the church. If you do not believe in the First presidency and the quorum of the 12 apostles as prophets seers and revelators, then you cannot be a member of the church…etc. It is that simple. The order of the church has been set a long time ago and the leaders simply follow that. These are the last days, and the media is being used by the devil. They pretend as if they want this person to be a member of our church so much. They don’t. If they did, they would encouraging all who are not member our church to earnestly come to our church. But they just want controversy. Your day will come to face the Lord. Chose ye this who ye will serve.

  • bob

    You can’t be a Mormon if you don’t believe in the fundamentals. It’s my observation that Mormonism is far less dogmatic than most religions. Catholicism, for example, has an answer for everything…..and if they don’t, they’ll organize a Synod and debate the issue forever. Protestant religions split up into separate congregations over the most minute details. Mormonism presents a few basic tenets, and leaves it at that. Most questions are answered with “We don’t know, and it doesn’t matter.”

    If you don’t buy the fundamentals, then you’re not a Mormon. SO WHY WOULD YOU ARGUE WITH THEM?

    I don’t believe in invisible spacemen at all, but I would never presume to argue with a believer. What they believe doesn’t affect me, and vice-versa. Live and let live. Believe whatever you like.

  • ERIC ANDERSON

    Next week at this time Mr. Jeremy Runnells will be add “former member of the LDS Church” to his resume.

Comments are closed.

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