Utah reacts after US Supreme Court rules same-sex marriage is legal

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SALT LAKE CITY -- Hundreds of people gathered to celebrate the historic ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court that made same-sex marriage legal nationwide.

The court's ruling resonated in Utah, the first state to see its ban overturned by the courts that started the tsunami that stretched across the nation.

"Look at Utah! Look at what we have accomplished! Look at what we have achieved!" Equality Utah director Troy Williams shouted to the cheering crowd Friday night.  "We are the first red state to overturn a gay marriage ban! And like dominos they fell!"

Hundreds gather at a rally celebrating the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on same-sex marriage on Friday.

Hundreds gather at a rally celebrating the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on same-sex marriage on Friday.

It was three couples who sued Utah in 2013 for the right to marry, challenging Amendment 3 -- which defined marriage as between a man and a woman and did not recognize anything else. In the first ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the Defense of Marriage Act, U.S. District Court Judge Robert Shelby struck down Amendment 3.

The state appealed through the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, who refused to hear the case in October making same-sex marriage legal in Utah.

On Friday, some of those plaintiffs felt joy at the ruling -- but did not believe the U.S. Supreme Court's historic ruling was a result of theirs.

"We don’t feel a sense of ownership, but we do feel a sense of community and belonging," Amendment 3 plaintiff Moudi Sbeity, who recently married his husband, Derek Kitchen, told FOX 13.

Derek Kitchen (left) and his husband, Moudi Sbeity, in an interview with FOX 13's Ben Winslow on Friday.

Derek Kitchen (left) and his husband, Moudi Sbeity, in an interview with FOX 13's Ben Winslow on Friday.

Kody Partridge and her wife, Laurie Wood, hugged at the Utah Pride Center and told reporters the ruling was "a great day for all families."

"We have always felt wed, whatever the country or the state said," said Partridge. "But it matters because we love each other and we want to protect each other."

Others in the state decried the ruling.

"I am disappointed with the decision by the court to usurp state authority and overrule the voice of the people of Utah as demonstrated by legislation with regard to marriage," Governor Gary Herbert said in a statement. "I am also very concerned with the overwhelming trend to diminish state autonomy. I believe states should have the right to determine their own laws regarding marriage. Clearly, the majority of the justices disagree and their decision provides finality with respect to the law."

[Read the full statements from others at the bottom of this story]

The Utah Attorney General's Office said that since marriage equality had been instituted in October with the U.S. Supreme Court's decision, nothing would change.

"We’ve been doing that since October, so for us really there’s no change on the ground," said the Utah Attorney General's Federal Solicitor Parker Douglas. The Federal Solicitor said he had heard no complaints from clerks since same-sex marriage was allowed.

Douglas defended the decision by Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes' office to fight the Amendment 3 case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"It’s our duty to defend any law that’s challenged for constitutionality," he told FOX 13. "Just as we defended Amendment 3 and the laws that were attached to it."

A modified version of the state flag is shown at a rally celebrating the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on same-sex marriage.

A modified version of the state flag is shown at a rally celebrating the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on same-sex marriage.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which, like Utah, filed a friend-of-the-court brief opposing same-sex marriage with the U.S. Supreme Court, reiterated its opposition to same-sex marriage.

"The Court's decision does not alter the Lord's doctrine that marriage is a union between a man and a woman ordained by God. While showing respect for those who think differently, the Church will continue to teach and promote marriage between a man and a woman as a central part of our doctrine and practice," it said in a statement.

Here is what other Utah leaders have to say about the decision:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acknowledges that following today's ruling by the Supreme Court, same-sex marriages are now legal in the United States. The Court's decision does not alter the Lord's doctrine that marriage is a union between a man and a woman ordained by God. While showing respect for those who think differently, the Church will continue to teach and promote marriage between a man and a woman as a central part of our doctrine and practice."

The Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City:

"Today the Supreme Court of the United States decided state marriage bans are unconstitutional, meaning all states will perform and recognize same-sex marriage.

This decision, though significant, does not conclude debate over the definition of marriage. As the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City responded when U.S. District Court Judge Robert J. Shelby struck down Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage, so we again affirm our pastoral response.

As Catholics, we seek to uphold our traditional belief in marriage as a sacrament, a well established and divinely revealed covenant between one man and one woman, a permanent and exclusive bond meant to provide a nurturing environment for children and the fundamental building block to a just society.

At the same time, we respect the dignity of all persons, not wishing to undermine their pursuit of happiness but only to preserve and defend the gift of marriage as divinely revealed in scripture and in natural law. Although we respectfully disagree with those who would define marriage otherwise, we firmly hold that all persons are loved by our compassionate God and deserve the respect and dignity that is inherently theirs as human beings.

We acknowledge the right of our nation’s highest court to provide for a well ordered society by establishing laws that protect the common good and safeguard the civil and contractual rights and privileges of its citizens. At the same time, we urge our lawmakers and judges to respect those institutions that are beyond state and federal jurisdiction, institutions such as sacramental marriage that transcend civil law and whose origins precede the existence of the state and go beyond its competence."

Governor Gary Herbert:

"Marriage, as defined by the people of Utah, has been redefined, first by the federal courts and today the outcome of that decision has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. I am disappointed with the decision by the court to usurp state authority and overrule the voice of the people of Utah as demonstrated by legislation with regard to marriage. I am also very concerned with the overwhelming trend to diminish state autonomy. I believe states should have the right to determine their own laws regarding marriage. Clearly, the majority of the justices disagree and their decision provides finality with respect to the law."

Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker:

"This is a historic day for our country, the state of Utah and our community as the Supreme Court appropriately extends the right of marriage to every loving couple across the land.

The joy we are feeling in Salt Lake City is palpable and I am personally grateful for this incredible affirmation of our civil rights and the elimination of the contrived legal barriers that have unnecessarily divided us in the past. This moment brings to mind Martin Luther King, Jr.'s immortal words, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

We should all pause today and remember the courageous stance taken by local couples who refused to be content with the second-class status that was imposed on them and took their fight to the courts-laying the groundwork for first overturning Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage and then playing a critical role in the groundswell that led to today’s ruling.

I will never forget that day, just a year-and-a-half ago, when I had the privilege to be a part of the first window of opportunity for every Utah couple to signify their love and commitment through the right of marriage. Today, all those feelings are back and I look forward to this overdue recognition being a giant step in the ongoing fight for equality, compassion and inclusion for every person, everywhere.”

Senator Orrin Hatch:

“The issue of same-sex marriage involves deeply held convictions on all sides of the debate. While I oppose discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, I do not support redefining the fundamental nature of marriage as between a man and a woman. But now that the Supreme Court has spoken, I will do everything in my power to ensure that this decision does not infringe on important concerns such as our fundamental right to the free exercise of religion.”

Rep. Chris Stewart:

"In light of today’s ruling by the Supreme Court to legalize same-sex marriage, we must remember to treat each other with kindness and love.”

 “I personally believe that marriage is best defined between one man and one woman and I wish that the courts would have deferred to the states on this divisive issue. Moving forward, we must now work to protect the rights guaranteed in the First Amendment respecting the establishment of religion and allowing the free exercise thereof."

Salt Lake County Mayor Ben McAdams:

“I’m pleased and happy that our nation’s highest court has ruled on marriage equality.  As Justice Kennedy stated in his opinion, “The right of same-sex couples to marry is derived from the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection.” This decision enshrines what I’ve long believed – that all families should be treated equally under the law.

Today’s decision is a milestone but not the end of the search for common ground, mutual respect and understanding among Utah’s many diverse communities.”

Utah Attorney General Sean D. Reyes:

"Throughout this case, the State made its best arguments to allow decisions about the fundamental nature of marriage to be decided through the democratic process and at the state level, avoiding a situation similar to Roe v. Wade from a generation ago. We understand many are thrilled with today’s outcome and many are equally disappointed. Regardless of one’s opinion of the ruling, the High Court has provided the guidance our office and the citizens of Utah and this nation have sought for several years. Advocacy on both sides helped bring us to this point of resolution. While people of goodwill on all sides of this issue have been at times divided and conflicted, we have an opportunity to come together again as equal citizens of this great state and nation.

After today, some questions remain regarding how this decision affects various individual situations and state agency operations in Utah beyond the specific issues addressed today by the Court. Our legislature, governor and state agencies will need to address these issues to provide greater clarity. In a significant way, they have already begun to draw a balance with legislation respecting religious freedoms and legislative protections for the LGBTQ Community. Should such freedoms and protections come under constitutional challenge, our office will do its duty and defend them just as we defended Amendment 3 and related laws. This is an important part of the legal process and fulfillment of our oaths.”

Troy Williams - Executive Director of Equality Utah:

"This is a tremendous achievement for freedom, equality and love. Today millions of American families can now celebrate that our country is truly dedicated to happiness, liberty and justice for all."

Utah Pride Center: 

"The Utah Pride Center is thrilled with the Supreme Court decision granting full marriage equality across the United States. Strong families are a hallmark value of our state, and this ruling provides constitutional clarity that the rights of individuals and of LGBTQ families are protected by the same ideals for which our country’s founders fought..

While Utah LGBTQ couples have had full equal rights within the state, they can now travel or move across the entirety of their country knowing their status doesn’t change by crossing a border, that they are equal everywhere they go. Today we stand with all the current families, and future families, throughout the United States who are now equal in the eyes of the law of their country."

Libertas Institute: 

"Our LGBT friends have good reason to be happy today, but those concerned about our laws and legal structure have great cause for alarm. As Chief Justice Roberts said in his dissent, 'The majority’s decision is an act of will, not legal judgment. The right it announces has no basis in the Constitution or this Court’s precedent… Just who do we think we are?'

"Today's opinion—and let's be clear, that's all it is—provides an opportunity for lawmakers to reconsider their long-standing support for government intervention in such an important societal relationship. In the coming months, we will be encouraging elected officials to consider a proposal to repeal government licensure of marriage, allowing churches, notaries public, and others to privately officiate and sanction these unions.

"Despite what some lawyers think, there is no 'fundamental right' to a government permission slip. The long-standing violation of the sacred union of marriage—encouraged by those looking to shape society to match their vision—needs to be fixed."

Mormons for Equality: 

"This is a beautiful day for so many families and we applaud the Court's ruling. But our work is not done. Alongside changing the laws, we must continue to change hearts." said Spencer W. Clark, Executive Director of Mormons for Equality. "For over two decades Mormons have feared - and fought - civil marriage equality. It will take time to overcome and repent of our past, but as we've seen already, the more that we come to know same-sex couples and their children, the more we discover that our fears were misplaced. Mormons believe in the importance of families, and for increasing numbers of Mormons, that means all families."

Celebration of Marriage: 

"The credibility of the judicial system has been permanently damaged as it concluded that adult relationships are so important that children must give up their relationship with their own mother or father when it comes into conflict with gay marriage. The Supreme Court has turned a blind eye to a child’s need for both a father and mother. This causes irreparable rifts in every aspect of family law, from custody battles in divorce courts, to adoptions that idealize motherless and fatherless family structures. The resulting fracture of family law will weaken Americans’ natural respect for the Court and turn the question of children’s legal relationships into an unresolvable and painful chaos."

Jackie Biskupski, former state lawmaker and candidate for SLC Mayor:

"Today the Supreme Court has confirmed in law what many of us have felt for so long in our hearts, that the promised equality of the Constitution is to each person above any regard for race, creed, color, gender, or sexual orientation. With this ruling the Court has clearly stated that our LGBT community is equal to any other.

Our hearts are also filled with tremendous gratitude to the many thousands of people who have suffered, sacrificed and worked for so long to bring us to this day; that suffering and sacrifice will not be forgotten.

While so many of us celebrate this momentous step toward full equality, we are mindful that there is still much work to do. We are also mindful of our neighbors who disagree with us and for whom this ruling will be challenging. Let us move forward to heal divisions, even for those who do not yet join in our celebration today. As this day clearly shows, with time hearts do change."

Luke Garrott, Salt Lake City Councilman and candidate for SLC Mayor:

"I am overjoyed this morning to see love prevail across the country, and in Utah. The SCOTUS ruling shows that we live in a society that can progress and grow, even on issues that are controversial and divisive. I am proud to have been a part of increasing LGBT equality in Salt Lake City through housing and employment non-discrimination ordinances, and I believe that we can continue to make improvements to make SLC a great place to live for all people."

Rep. Rob Bishop:

“The decision from the Supreme Court was wrong and it was made the wrong way. As is the case in countless issues of governance, states are so-often better suited to act on behalf of the people. The US Constitution makes no mention of marriage and therefore the matter should have been left to the states. Chief Justice Roberts said it best when he wrote in his dissent, ‘If you are among the many Americans—of whatever sexual orientation—who favor expanding same-sex marriage, by all means celebrate today’s decision … But do not celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it.’” Rep. Bishop added, “If the consequences of this decision present a threat of religious liberties, I stand ready to fight for the people’s right to practice their faith without government interference.” 

Senator Mike Lee:

“Today five Justices took a vital question about the future of American society out of the public square, imposing the views of five unelected judges on a country that is still in the midst of making up its mind about marriage,” Lee said. “That is unfortunate, but it is not the end of the discussion, as Americans of good faith who believe that marriage is the union of a man and a woman will continue to live as witnesses to that truth. “
“I am nonetheless heartened by the majority’s reassurance that the religious liberty rights of all Americans, including those who advocate a traditional view of marriage, must be protected. As Justice Kennedy states in the decision, ‘the First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to continue the family structure they have long revered. The same is true of those who oppose same-sex marriage for other reasons.’”
“Our focus now must be on defending these crucial rights of conscience. That is exactly why Rep. Raul Labrador (R-ID) and I have introduced the First Amendment Defense Act, which would prevent the federal government from discriminating against anyone who believes that marriage is a union between one man and one woman."

Rt. Rev. Scott B. Hayashi, Episcopal Diocese of Utah:

"I am joyful that all can now share in the sacred unity of marriage. I am especially happy for the children of LGBT parents who now can enjoy equal standing with their friends whose parents are heterosexual. Because I firmly believe all are made in God’s image, I have been praying and hoping for today’s decision to recognize marriage equality throughout our land. At the same time, I know that the Supreme Court decision is of great and troubling concern to many good people. I ask that we also offer prayers and thoughts for those who find the decision difficult.  This is a time to heal some profound scars that have been magnified by debate."


      • trevor

        Wait, what? Who’s brainwashed? The people that are told what is right and wrong and believe it without a doubt? That can’t be your kind. Nope, not at all. Meanwhile, the people that think on their own make progress.

      • Really

        Ann, your comments are offensive…and not because i am a monet if the LGBT community. By your definition, i personally should have never been allowed to marry, as i cannot have children. You need to let go of the hate and understand those who are different from you still deserve the rights and freedoms that you do even though they are different!

      • Nanny

        Lance has serious imaginary friend issues. How sad you can’t be a grown up in a grown up world. Satan…LOL. You might be scared to find out that it isn’t some fake boogie man making you do all those horrible things. It’s simply YOU. All by your lonesome, all you, not any mysterious force of good or evil. Get a grip!

    • Stanley 1944

      And you have proof of this Satan person/thing? Or it is just a “feeling” you get? I think you might need some mental help if you are seeing or hearing things that you can’t prove are there. They lock people up for that stuff, you know!

    • Ann American

      Randy, you are completely correct. Hope you get my comment, because it seems these homo lovers refuse to post my comments. Satan IS in control of this nation. Any wonder why it seems that God is no longer protecting us?

      • Nice

        Religious People think they’ve arrived. They think they know. They think you don’t know. They are Religious, and thus they claim all knowledge and holiness for themselves.

      • L Conrad

        God loves all, including what you refer to as “homos”. Too bad you can’t take a page from your own book Ann!

    • Steve

      Don’t you need a little more actual evidence of a Satan before you start spewing comments about him/her? Maybe you are just going with your gut feeling. Good luck with that. Cray!

    • trevor

      Satan was the one with the plan to force people to do the “right” thing, remember? Seems like some people are following that leadership.

    • Ron

      True!!! If the logic of the supreme court holds….that means that I can claim to be poligamist and marry many women, since i can demand that my religious believes need to be accepted….YESSSS!!!!!!!

  • bobbynorwich

    A great day for America! Finally men and women can marry whomever they love regardless of gender without interference by the government. Now gays can be as miserable as the rest of us hetero marrieds. :))

    • Nancy

      Hahaha, so true! Live and let live. It would be such an insult to the “preservers of traditional marriage” if they didn’t end up with a 60% or greater divorce rate. Ahhhh, so sacred! What a joke!

    • Ann American

      Small percentage, actually. Mostly you HOMO activists are out in full force, as expected. And as expected, you will all doubtless work with force to create religious persecution on e again in America. Sad day for us all.

      • CIndy

        You are fooling yourself ANN. There is a HUGE percentage supporting this, which is why the SCOTUS ruled in their favor today. Don’t be a sore looser. Just admit you are NOT right in this matter. We will forgive you. It is something you would never do!

      • Andrew

        That’s the problem with Mormons, can’t admit their wrong and accept others views. It’s sad really. But it’s ok that they came and slaughtered the local inhabitants to claim the land. But I don’t think that’s taught in seminary.

  • DivideByZero

    The only disappointment I have is the behavior and attitude of Gov. Herbert. Additionally it’s a disgrace of the amount of time and money that was wasted on this. I know I won’t be voting for him next re-election.

    • Kdc

      And you’re surprised by actions and statements from a man who promises to give all his time talents and everything he has or will have to the lds church?

      • Tom Monson is de facto governor of Utah and his friend Gary answers to him

        If he takes his temple covenants seriously then he answers to Tom Monson. He has no other choice but to give all his time, talents and money towards advancing the interests of the Mormon church and his friend Tommy. If we don’t take the threat that Gary and Tom pose to our state, country and world seriously then freedom will not mean anything. This anti-human, anti-family, anti-equality and anti-good Governor and his evil friend Tom will not change.

  • Andrew

    I think it’s great. Mormons need to butt out of people’s lives. They pressure people to join in on their beliefs but can’t accept others. It’s time the Mormons stop trying to influence others!

    • Waaaawaaaaa, cry us a river of tears God

      “Guess they’ll have to bring the Danites back”

      They need to get the Danites back because their god is either a pansy who is hiding somewhere while making threats through his followers because he’s a coward who can’t follow through and do something about all his threats or their God does not exist and they are the ones making the threats but either way we are NOT afraid of them or their God so let them bring back the Danites because it’s clear that they are either following a false God or their god is a pansy little punk that no one is going to be scared of.

      Ohhhhhhhhhhhh nooooooooooo. He is so powerful and he is going to torment us for eternity if we support the right of gays to love people of the same gender because he is really that evil.

      Any Mormons here please do us all a favor and pass this on to your God during your prayers tonight. We are laughing at the punk loser who is either just a figment of the minds of you punks or a real punk who needs some sense knocked into him. Either way we aren’t scared.

  • Sam Hill

    Another blow against the will of the people in the face of judicial fiat. We’re heading in the wrong direction faster every day.

    • Nancy

      This is OBVIOUSLY not the will of the people. Besides if it is the will of the people, it is from very messed up people. Why would you even care if gays marry? They aren’t hurting you, or anyone else. Mind your own business for once. If you want to be up in someone’s bedroom do it to the LDS freaks! They love that!

    • Kdc

      Guess you better move to Iraq. LGTB conduct or marriages carry the death penalty there, but then again, so does being Christian

      • Mormons and their God are evil


        If there is a God and a heaven and a hell and Mormons go to heaven then the good people of this world would be better off in hell. We would be better off doing the right thing then being wicked and evil like Mormons and their so called God are.

    • Carrie

      Here is something the LDS like to say. If you don’t like it LEAVE! See ya! Try the middle east. It is what you religious crazies are trying to do to America anyway.

      • Buh-bye Felicia

        Exactly. there threats on behalf of their so-called God don’t mean anything. Let them cry like little children and if there God is real and is listening to them they are free to give him a message from us:

        We don’t care that you threaten us like a spoiled little childish brat. If you are going to torment us for eternity anyway we may as well do the right thing instead of choosing evil over good and siding with you and your evil followers. So, if you want to threaten us punk then come on out and do something you coward. All this talk about how you are going to torment us or punish us for eternity if we don’t follow your evil commands doesn’t get you anywhere. We are NOT afraid. So if you aren’t going to do anything right now but cry like a little baby and tell us how you are going to show us later you can take a flying leap off whatever planet or universe you live in.

        Until you or one of your crazy followers do something we will do what is right. Buh-bye Felicia.

    • Ann American

      Sam, you are right. And did you notice all the LOVING, KIND comments the HOMOS are making? Aren’t they just the most gentle, nice humans? Yes, I AM being VERY cynical!!!!!

  • Ann American

    A sad day for religious freedom in America. Think I’m being over dramatic? How about the Christian family stuck with a $13,000 fine because they could not in clear conscience have a homo couple married on their farm? Freedom of religion in the first most basic right for which this nation was created. Out the window!

    • Brandi

      Religious freedom has had ENOUGH freedom to kill millions in the name of God for no crime or even reason. Waaaaaah! Tired of hearing this BS! Grow up and treat people the way God intended and you won’t get called on the carpet. May I remind you God is a figment of your imagination? If you believe so strongly, then prove your beliefs or SHUT UP! They are just beliefs, not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Ann American

        Don’t know their names. They had a business letting people get married on their farm, and a homo couple tried to force them to let them marry there despite the family’s strong religious beliefs. Is THIS REALLY the America all you left-wing activists want to see, because someday it will bite you back.

    • URL

      Ann American has a really screwed up point of view. Probably stems from his/her religion. I wonder if you realize that you are brainwashed because ALL religion is made up. Come on, grow up would you?

  • Ann American

    It’s time for churches to institute ” church weddings” according to the church belief system, even if a ” civil wedding” must then be done afterwards. As believers in God’s word, we must not allow our freedom of religion to be destroyed in this era of Sodom and Gomorah. Let’s pray that there are enough of us that our whole nation isn’t destroyed, as were those sorry cities.

    • bob

      Churches can still choose whom to marry. Nothing has actually changed except that all consenting adult citizens now have access to the same LEGAL, contractual benefits. (And liabilities.)

      You shouldn’t have to sleep with ANYONE just to sign a contract.

  • bob

    Wow. Gays can marry. but hating Mormons is obviously still OK.

    It’s Liberal Heaven.

    I’ve never cared whether or not gays “marry.” The legal benefits of marriage should be available to all consenting adult citizens. It’s a contract.

    I can never be forced to refer to a man’s “husband”, or a woman’s “wife.” The SOCIAL aspect of marriage remains forever beyond the grasp of government. Gays have always “married”, and anyone who chose to call them “married” did so.

    The correct way to deal with it is to remove the M-word from all government documents. Everyone equal.

    • SAC

      It’s not a liberal heaven. It is a conservetard heaven! You are just using buzzwords. 83% of this country is Christian! How in the hell are they being persecuted? Stop saying stupid things in public.

  • nobody

    Thomas Jefferson said, “…whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.” The Supreme Court is part of that general government. It does NOT have the final say. That belongs to the states and to the people. The court is purely political and overstepping it’s constitutional bounds. Government should get out of marriage altogether.

  • Christopher Beebe

    The 14th Amendment of the Equal Rights Act may have been created to guarantee equal rights for anyone of race, color, nationality, religion and disability status – but can also be extended to include sexual preference, as far as I’m concerned. There IS no place for hatred anywhere in the U.S. and SCOTUS made that clear.

  • forest from the trees

    How interesting it is how a little bit of light can get the darkness all stirred up.

  • Matt

    All I have to say is that all of the LGBT folks are going to have a real awakening when they realize they have violated GOD’s laws. Satan has really screwed all of those folks up big time. They are so blind they cannot see the truth and Satan loves it just that way. The LGBT crowd has swallowed Satan’s lie hook, line, and sinker.

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