5 hands among thousands mark rare votes of dissent during LDS Church’s General Conference

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SALT LAKE CITY – There were some rare votes of dissent Saturday in Salt Lake City at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ semi-annual General Conference, which is held each April and October, and this is reportedly the first time a vote in opposition has occurred at a conference session since the '80s.

During the Saturday afternoon session of the 185th semi-annual General Conference, President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency of the LDS Church, read the names of LDS Church leadership and asked members attending to raise their hand as a vote to sustain them as leaders, an event that occurs as part of the regular business of the semi-annual gathering and almost always proceeds with unanimous assent.

When it came to sustain the LDS Church’s First Presidency, at least five people raised their hands and some people could be heard shouting when opposing votes were called for.

"I stood up in the Tabernacle, raised my hand and said, 'I oppose' and sat back down," said Laura Pennock. "My heart was pounding. It was probably the scariest thing I've ever done."

The same five indicated dissent again when the vote to sustain the members of the LDS Church’s Quorum of the Twelve Apostles was called. It did not appear the individuals opposed votes to sustain other leaders, and business proceeded as normal as the votes to sustain continued.  After the first shouts during the call for opposing votes is heard, Uchtdorf says, 'The vote has been noted' then continues to the other sustaining votes. He made a similar comment after the second round of shouts. See the video below for the exchange.

While a few hands and shouts among a crowd estimated at about 22,000 people may seem minor, an LDS Church spokesman said he could not remember the last time anyone had voted opposed during General Conference. Members who voted in opposition Saturday said they are the first to do so during a session of General Conference since sometime in the 1980s; LDS Church officials did not offer a specific date for the last such vote.

Some LDS Church members said they felt this most recent vote of opposition was not appropriate to the setting.

"I think people have a right to oppose things, I just think there is a time and place to do it--and the time and place to do it is not inside the general assembly," said LDS Church member Julie Ann Debenham.

After the end of the sustaining votes—most of which appeared to proceed with unanimous assent--Uchtdorf made a brief statement regarding those who opposed the proposals, and when contacted about the incident LDS Church Spokesman Eric Hawkins directed FOX 13 News to that comment and said people with concerns should contact their local leaders.

Uchtdorf stated during the conference: “We invite those who oppose any of the proposals to contact their Stake Presidents. My dear brothers and sisters, we thank you for your faith and prayers in behalf of the leaders of the church.” See the video below for that comment.

Stake Presidents are regional LDS Church leaders who oversee a stake, which is made up of several local LDS congregations called wards.

However, some of those who voted in opposition said they have already tried speaking with local leaders about their concerns.

"I have other friends, they've tried, and they hit the glass ceiling that is basically the stake presidency level," Melissa Martinez said.

The dissenting votes were planned in advance, according to a press release sent to FOX 13 News. LDS Church member Don Braegger told FOX 13 News he was among those who voted in opposition, and he cited recent excommunications of prominent critics within the LDS Church, among other things, as his reasons.

"With the recent excommunications of Kate Kelly and John Dehlin and some others, it has seemed, to a lot of us, that the church is trying to stifle an open voice and an open conversation," he told FOX 13 News.

Danell Roberts also attended the session of conference, but she was among the thousands who voted yes and she spoke about the opposing votes.

“It’s disappointing to me; it made me feel sad that someone would oppose, especially, the prophet of God," she said. "It was very sad to me to see that evil is coming in and people are doubting, losing their faith."

Braegger sent a statement about the decision to vote opposed, and in it he described himself as an LDS Church member "in good standing" who comes from "pioneer stock" and who served an LDS mission and in various church callings in his life. While the event was organized under the name "Any Opposed" and the Twitter handle @AnyOpposed, Braegger stated it isn't an organized effort with specific goals for change.

"I do not have a blog, I am not part of any organized effort to change policies or doctrines of the Church. I do not wish to convince family members, friends or membership of the Church at large that they should share my concerns and doubt their faith. But like the little boy from the childhood fable, I must state what I see and proclaim “The Emperor has no Clothes! In doing so I realize that I risk ridicule, alienation from family and potential disciplinary action from Church Leadership. I purposefully take these risks in order to have personal integrity.”

In the statement Braegger cited things like the LDS Church's previous policy of not ordaining members of African descent to the priesthood as well as recently released essays on topics from the LDS Church's history that include polygamy and LDS Church founder Joseph Smith marrying a girl just prior to her 15th birthday.

General Conference has multiple 2-hour sessions Saturday and Sunday, and those sessions are streamed online by the LDS Church. Click here for more information and to view the live stream.


    • JS

      Base on your comment I feel that you should replace Payson with your home address. I have so much respect for individuals like Don Braegger. He has not let years blind him from blatant lies.

      • LMY

        what is your problem with people who have nothing to do with you? you have your ideals and your criticisms — why don’t you just take your toys and go home rather than try to make everyone else feel like they need to have your same opinions or risk being (what?) — happy with their lives???? And the fact you are so condescending — I’m sure you know a lot and have even more opinions on things — but this church existed long before you and there are many functional, devoted, content, and spiritual members who do just fine without your egregious, tactless, flippant, and sarcastic communication. There are so many already just like you, one more you doesn’t make a speck of difference. Honestly – I will never understand why people who are so indignant can’t be indignant and happy without trying to pull down 50 others with them.

  • Annie Bates

    I am an LDS Woman and do not feel anything but gratitude and worth. Woman have been reveered and
    treated with love and respect- those in opposition do not understand this. Women have been and are involved
    in the church – just look at Eliza R. Snow for an example. And our present sisters in Relief Society, Primary, Young
    Women… It is the Lord’s church and he is ‘in charge’, through his chosen servants…

    • Shey Marie

      Growing up in the church I have heard many young women leaders and relief society presidents express this sentiment, even proudly proclaiming that women run the church because they lead 3 of the main functions of the church. But then I realized how sexist and soul crushing the church was to young women. I was learning how to sew and knit and be a perfect housewife, but my brother was a boy scout. He got to build soap box derby cars and go camping, but most of all, he learned that his contributions were important, that his happiness was important. That was critical messaging that was the exact opposite of what I got. I learned how to take care of others, put their needs before my own. I learned that I was responsible for making sure my future husband went on his mission, at the same time I was being discouraged from going on a mission myself. It took me a long time to see how women are exploited for their unpaid work in the church, running primary and relief society and acting like that is some great honor, but really its just that the men cant be bothered. All the important decisions are made by men without any input allowed from women, and I can not count the times I have seen women go along with something hey do not agree with or do not want because their husband, or some member of the priesthood says this is the way things are. Men hold the highest level of leadership and women are not allowed a say in that. We are patted on the head all the time, and frankly I think that story about how women run the church is part of how we are patronized and tricked into submission. I think if women really did run the church it would be a completely different organization.

      • Shaun

        I am a man in the church and I think what you say is pretty accurate. Growing up, I never realized it was happening, or even what “it” was. I wasn’t concerned with it. I just assumed women wanted it this way. I truly never understood why young women had such a sense of fear when doing/talking about *anything*. I could never quite put my finger on it, but as I talked with several young women (just about general stuff), I did notice a trend. They all always felt ashamed of themselves, like they couldn’t measure up, like they were constantly letting someone down, like they were worthless unless they lived the gospel 100%. I even dated a girl who constantly told me I shouldn’t be dating her, because I deserved a better mormon girl. I would always tell her that was nonsense, that I loved her for who she was. But it never seemed to cheer her up. I never really put two and two together, being a teenager whose focus was clouded greatly by hormones…but I see it now…and it is a problem

        We were taught, as young men, that women were deserving of the highest respect, but it’s only now I realize how unrespected they actually were/are. If the message women got was one of self importance, self respect, ease up on the rules, etc. then things might be different. I can only wonder at how many mormon women still carry negative stigmas from their upbringing.

      • Nathaniel R. Robinson

        You do know that men do not get paid for their service either? Fast offerings, sacrament, teaching in Sunday School and Primary, working in Nursery. Also, the bishops and Stake Presidents do not get paid, for all the work they do. And women do have a say in Ward councils, and are treated equal to everyone else in those meetings.

      • Homeangel

        It appears to me that blame for the way LDS women are treated and their lack of priesthood status is being placed on the wrong shoulders. To understand who the leaders get their direction from perhaps people should read the words of the Savior, who said that the man was the head of the woman. He asked for, and gratefully received service from women, saying that it is an honorable thing they did. He pointed out repeatedly, through biblical prophets, that women was made from and for man, not the other way around. To be honest, when I read the New Testament I marvel at how much we are allowed to do in this modern day and wonder if perhaps I am being too bold and disrespectful to my Savior. I am certain that many will think I am brainwashed or some such thing, but if feeling respect for my Savior’s decisions is brainwashing than I gladly accept it.

      • LMY

        the church teaches that women have certain gifts and men have different gifts. they encourage leadership amongst both genders and in the different capacities that are consistent in the manner the Lord God also created them. Men aren’t expected to be mothers and women are not expected to be fathers – that is not their role by nature or work. The roles we do in the church are an extension of the roles we have to some extent on the homefront but they are certainly not limited to that. Women are not patronized but honored and esteemed for having such significant impact on all the youth as well as the men. Men are encouraged to be the leaders in the home as is in accordance to the Holy Bible. God created Adam first, then Eve. There is an order and that order is followed by our church and extends to the leadership and the roles of our leaders. If you do not support the direction of this church, then you dissent from the church and should start your own. If you will recall, that is how the other religions evolved — from the Catholic church to Protestant and eventually all the others (source: Elder LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and Wonder). If you have a fundamental problem with what this church teaches, then you need to pray, read your scriptures and figure out what recourse you have because I believe a church who has an exemplary youth, a strong, devout and righteous leadership, members who are bar none, some of the finest, most honorable and ethical humans alive today and the fact that our members have succumbed the least to the evil in this world — then I believe you have indeed lost your faith — but that does not give you the right to corrupt and defile what God put on this earth and appointed as His leaders of the church in this world.

    • Lagertha

      Some very interesting history on Eliza Roxey Snow (and one of my favorite stories from church history):
      In 1844 Eliza R. Snow was one of Joseph’s six wives that lived in the Mansion House. At 39 years old she had conceived Joseph’s child. Emma caught Joseph and Eliza in an embrace and flew into a rage. She grabbed a broomstick and began beating her, Eliza tried to flee and stumbled down the stairs, Emma pursued her and chased her out of the house while still in her night dress. The fall caused Eliza to miscarry. Joseph ordered Emma to apologize and restore Eliza to the house. She later married Brigham Young.

      • Dave Miller

        Thinking people know the LDS ‘church’ is a complete fraud and that Smith was a con man. There are volumes of evidence, not only about this, but about the numerous crimes that have followed this brazen cult throughout it’s history. Apologetics have been trying desperately for 185 years to lend some sense of legitimacy to this cult and the fraudsters who still control the minds and, to a lesser degree, the money of it’s members. The church ‘leaders’ aren’t men of god, they’re the caretakers of a vast financial fortune estimated to be $100 billion. Delusion is a powerful force that is difficult, if not impossible, to reason with and as long as the members continue to fill the church coffers, the church will continue to fill their minds with lies and deception.

      • Sean

        I have actually done some research regarding those claims concerning Joseph Smith. All accusations made against him were made much later in his life, not supporting there was any fact to them. Also, his own family were converted to the church, if his reputation was even slightly tarnished that would never have happened. The fact is all those accusations were being made to slow down the rapid rate of conversion to the LDS church. And to anyone unable to let go of the polygamy issue, its hard to condemn early church members for doing something out of necessity. The rate of male death to female death during the movement of the church from its founding to final settling in Utah was staggering.

      • angel

        we already heard the story yet we did not leave the Mormon church!!! why? Because there is no other church that can give us peace and happiness in our lives. Satan is trying his best to destroy this church and so he enlisted the help of a lot of people. Those people are the ones who always speak evil of the church. they disseminate bad news of Joseph Smith etc. But can this church be destroyed? No. Years had proven it. It will be keep on rolling through all ages until the end of the world. Dissidents will always be present from generation to another but can not stop the church!!!!

  • Txtn833

    On African Americans not being able to hold the priesthood, and polygamy. The church didn’t allow African Americans to have the priesthood prior to the civil war, when people were (sadly) racist. So did the rest of America. Polygamy has been part of society for as long as human civilization has been around. It just isn’t widely practiced anymore. Deal with it. We can’t change history.

    • Ski Atomic

      The American Civil War ended in 1865. Africans were allowed priesthood in 1978. So, 113 years went by. You could argue that racism was prevalent until MLK Jr., but there is still a wide gap in years that the LDS church lagged. This whole argument is based on what CULTURE thinks is okay. Does LDS doctrine follow culture or does it come from God?

      • kwest

        One could argue that racism is still present today… That change in LDS church policy related to priesthood came about a decade after the civil rights movement, a much smaller gap than what you are suggesting. I find it Interesting to note that critics never mention that in it’s early history (while slavery was still in effect) the LDS church was actually much more accepting of African Americans relatively speaking. African Americans were always allowed to be members of the church, there was never a policy of segregation, and Joseph Smith openly opposed slavery. Denying blacks the priesthood is not and never was official church doctrine, simply a policy that church leaders fully expected to be rescinded in the future, which it was almost 40 years ago. LDS church policies are guided by God, who I’m sure understands how the complexities of culture relate to furthering his work better than anyone, and so also are often reflective of culture.

      • Amravin de Schur

        That’s a very good point. Thanks for articulating it. The LDS Church can only support their long history of racism through culture, not through revelation or Jesus told them so.

    • Shey Marie

      1978. 19 fricking 78!!!! 10 years after the civil rights act passed and only AFTER the government threatened to revoke the churchs non profit status the quarum decided, oh, I guess we will let Black people hold the preisthood. Although why any Black person would want to be a part of such a racist organization is beyond me. But note that date before you start talking about how thats so long ago people should get over the past. Thats in my life time. And women are still not allowed to hold the preisthood.

      • Amravin de Schur

        The story of Shey Marie is not isolated from too many stories of women who were born and raised in the American version of Mormonism. I say “American Version”, because anywhere else the Mormons are converts, and they hold to traditions and histories that do not relate to the painful histories that were imposed on those who were born in the Utah Mormonism as descendants of Joseph Smith and his cronies. All of these White American Women, starting with Emma Smith, had the same problem: The “Church” is not friendly to women, but it indoctrinates women into servitude and silence.

      • kwest

        The Federal government never threatened to revoke the church’s non-profit status because of that policy, some have made that assertion in the past but there is no evidence to support it. Also, I find serious flaws in an argument that judges the present LDS church as racist for a policy that was done away with nearly 40 years ago. That argument is tired. The church has an incredibly mild history of racism generally speaking. Was racism present? Yes. Was it worse than the rest of the U.S. population? Hardly.

      • JS

        JOHNE, considering the church doesn’t recognize civil rights until their arm is twisted I would say the LDS church is not for anyone.

    • Amravin de Schur

      TXTM833 – Why would a woman want to be a priest in an organization that holds so many skeletons inside the closets? The “Prophets” who followed Smith into Polyandry were sent to jail for violating the law when they used and abused their abilities to brainwash the public. Those men kept convincing women -many of whom were still minors- to enter the heavenly polyandry by imposing stories that they told the women were messaged by angels. Joseph told one of his youngest lovers that he would be killed on the spot by an angel, if she didn’t enter the polyandry with him. The poor girl surely barely knew how to read and write. Her decision to marry him surely was fully uninformed and based on mind control and fear. Ever since, the women have remained unable of making INFORMED DECISIONS in Mormonism, because all they are is, commanded to serve and obey. There is cognitive dissonance in holding the name and belongings of Brigham Young as it he had been a holy man, when they all know he wasn’t. Another thing that is scary is, why is there no commission controlling how those women are being raised? Are they having the right to dissent? Can they move on to agnosticism or to whatever their reason may lead them to, if they stop obeying the commands of those men? The Church is a prison of the mind. Humanity was born to think and decide in freedom, not in fear.

      • Amravin de Schur

        Actually, it is all the same. The women living in Polygyny in Utah end up marrying and remarrying other males as the cult tells them to. I recently met a delightful lady who has married two men in her life. With one she had eight kids with the other four. She is now alone. The first in jail for raping their daughter. The cult is causing much disruption in women’s lives, and the LDS Church fails in addressing the problem, because they keep idolizing Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the many other polygynous who started the problem.

      • kwest

        The Federal government never threatened to revoke the church’s non-profit status because of that policy, some have made that assertion in the past but there is no evidence to support it. Also, I find serious flaws in an argument that judges the present LDS church as racist for a policy that was done away with nearly 40 years ago. That argument is tired. The church has an incredibly mild history of racism generally speaking. Was racism present? Yes. Was it worse than the rest of the U.S. population? No.

      • kwest

        Where the allegations come from is the better question. Not whether the Federal Gov’t denies these allegations (they have no reason to because they are unfounded). The source you posted makes claims it cannot back up with evidence.

      • Amravin de Schur

        As far as can be seen through history records, the “prophets” went to prison federal charges. There are photographs all over the internet, if you would like to check. Evidently, the Federal government doesn’t need to affirm or deny an event that is part of history records.

      • Amravin de Schur

        ANOTHERBOB — I agree that the internet may not always be reliable. But, I also look into very reliable sources in the Internet, such as the American Archaeological Society, University Databases (I pass with BYU), institutes that research on culture in various languages, newspapers in all possible languages showing original pages of the news as they happened. So I am glad that the Internet has arrived to serve as a tool for those who really want to know, to find information.

        But… Do you think the Internet Sources are less true than the stories told by Joseph Smith and his cronies, which have in the meanwhile been debunked by all scientific, archaeological, historical, linguistic and theological institutions in the world? if you do, go ahead but do not try to pass that as a religion to those who have valid arguments to not adhere to the mythology.

      • kwest

        Your source still has no evidence that the U.S. government threatened the LDS church’s tax exempt status related to this issue, and thus, your source constitutes a red herring. Not biting. Also, ad hominem attacks are poor form.

      • Amravin de Schur

        KWEST — Regarding the federal government’s demand to the Mormons for stopping their teachings of racism against members of the African Diaspora, you may want to inquire into the files and research materials provided by the Lighthouse Ministries in Utah. I am sure that Sandra Tanner does satisfy your curiosity with the data you are so avidly questioning. As we all know, the Lighthouse Ministries has one of the most comprehensive databases on the questions around Mormonism in existence. For your information, both Sandra Tanner and her deceased husband are direct descendants of the original “Prophets” that created this confusion.

      • Amravin de Schur

        QWEST — It is worth to remember that the Mormon Church faced international pressures from countries where they built their new temples, such and not limited to the countries of Latin America. Do you honestly believe that the Mormons were embraced by the Brazilian theologians when they started to build the Brazil temple in a historical moment when the Mormons where still holding on to the racism of their ancestors, telling to one another that “Whosoever mixed one drop of the Negro blood with the white and delightsome blood of the whites, would receive the curse or die on the spot”? As irrational as this may be, the Mormons faced entering Brazil, a country where that type of racism is unthinkable, because most Brazilians have been happily dancing and intermixing races since the times of the Colonization. At that time and point of history, the Mormons’ invented theology of mystical racism was still teaching that the Negro is damned from before he was born. The only reason why they were able to intrude in Brazil with such a past is, the Brazilians’ ignorance of the roots. If the Internet would have been in existence, the racist teachings of the Mormons would possibly have gone viral, and like in the case of the Temple in the United Kingdom, where the tax exemption has been terminated for the redefinition of the temple as “corporation”, other countries would have been informed too. But, the Internet would still need decades to arrive. However, also international pressures added to the existing protests against the infamous teachings of the Utah Mormons regarding other peoples’ race. But you know all of this already. It is public knowledge.

      • kwest

        AMRAVIN: The only thing I am curious about is why you won’t admit that the assumption the church’s tax exempt status was threatened on this issue is false, especially with such a clear absence of evidence to support such a claim (theres not even any evidence through the UTLM with it’s comprehensive database as you say – in fact, they don’t even pretend to make such a claim). It really questions your credibility. Yes, there were other external pressures (I never said there wasn’t), but not that. I’m not really interested in addressing your other claims that are unrelated to my initial point that you questioned. It’s been fun though!

    • Connie S Whiting Lucas

      The church didn’t allow African Americans into the priesthood until 1978 so I’m not sure why you think it was prior to the civil war when in fact it was years after the civil rights movement.

    • LMY

      At no time were blacks given a position of leadership anywhere in the country – not in the nation’s government– and they were not even allowed to work in certain job capacities in the 1800s. Most blacks were completely illiterate. This was the 1800s we are speaking of and many concepts and ways of those times (both within the church and within the nation) across the many states and communities have changed with the times. Bottom line, we believe we are lead by a Prophet inspired of God’s wisdom to do the things that the Lord commands. We believe the direction of the church is based on the Lord’s commands in the Lord’s time – and if you have a problem with the Lord’s instruction and when He chooses to implement changes then you presume to be more wise and knowledgeable than the God who created you.

    • awangus

      Personally I do not have a problem with them shouting out their opposing vote. If you are opposed, then do not do so in secret. I hope they then left the conference. Why stay and listen to something you are opposed to.

      As for “Mo-Mo the Mo-Mo” if you left the Church because of history then you are correct in doing so. By the “standards” of today, there are far worse things in the bible than in Church history. I exclude the rablings found all over the Internet full of misinformation and half truths. So if you left because of true history then you would be opposed to the bibale as well and have no testimony. So you would be in a better place out of the Church. At least you would have a better chance on judgement day than those who stay in the Church but are opposed.

      Anyway, just my view on the subject.

  • rebifromgermany

    I love how Elder Russell M. Nelson explained the difference between sustaining and voting: “When we sustain prophets and other leaders, we invoke the law of common consent, for the Lord said, ‘It shall not be given to any one to go forth to preach my gospel, or to build up my church, except he be ordained by some one who has authority, and it is known to the church that he has authority and has been regularly ordained by the heads of the church.’

    This gives us, as members of the Lord’s Church, confidence and faith as we strive to keep the scriptural injunction to heed the Lord’s voice as it comes through the voice of His servants the prophets. All leaders in the Lord’s Church are called by proper authority. No prophet or any other leader in this Church, for that matter, has ever called himself or herself. No prophet has ever been elected. The Lord made that clear when He said, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you.” You and I do not “vote” on Church leaders at any level. We do, though, have the privilege of sustaining them.”

      • JS

        God already knows the life span of each of these men. Each apostle is called by revelation at just the right time during his life. He either lives long enough to have seniority and become the Prophet because God wants him to be the living Prophet on earth and lead His church, or the apostle will pass away before ever obtaining seniority because it was never God’s purpose for that man to serve as the living Prophet. It is not left to chance.

      • JS

        JS,you give us fellow JS’s a bad rep. Who inculcated that rubbish into your head?! The leadership is very, very dirty.

  • Lauren E

    Isn’t the purpose of the vote to sustain the individuals and dissent meant to be used if you have actual knowledge of a behavior which who exclude the person from office? Do these people understand this is not a vote about the church’s stance on social issues? As much as these people deny they are connected to a movement, the fact that they chose to join in shows they are linked to those groups. I have been inactive from the church for over 35 yrs. I remain respectful of the church and its members. I will never understand those who feel they have the right to expect the church to bend to social pressure. If you are unhappy with the church, just leave. You obviously don’t believe. There are many tolerated/acceptable behaviors among the general public which will never be acceptable for LDS members, let alone those in good standing.

  • Joanne

    Regarding blacks and the priesthood…I am a Mormon, I don’t know the exact reasons why they were denied it, I can only speculate from conditions at the time. However, if blacks were willing to be baptised and embrace the gospel at that time knowing they wouldn’t be able to hold the priesthood, that satisfies me. They obviously had no doubt that the gospel principles were true.

  • truth

    The church is a great organization that has build it foundation on a past history of the flds culture that will always be embody in the church’s creature for God’s plan. The church’s status as a non profit organization wealth continues to grow ,with members gifting there 10 percent of there wages from working, to the church. So the billion dollar question is, what is the true purpose of the church. No audit can be issued from the government, grants will still be issue, are the life insurance claims on during missionary. Many members follow God’s will for the truth to be saved, life a good healthy life and to help others, but in the end, the church will write off all receipts of goods to cash out the taxes issue for refunds to the irs. The food, labor and time the church assigns is offseted with non profit status. All profit. Ask the bookeepers to show there tax records of the church, won’t happen. Women have the right if more to run the church. If I tried to be a real man of God, I have to learn how to submit to my wife as I should submit to God only if I know she truly loves me as she also loves god, but I guess we just love ourselves to much by justifying God’s true will of love. As a man we should fear our wife’s and pay attention to there wisdom, understanding and knowledge. We came from there body’s gentlemen, we just need to remember that and not be reminded. Pride is an emotion, but love is to submit. As a man, can u do that for your woman or wife on any matter to bring peace to your family, community and God. Only time will tell.


    So how many of these 5 “sincere” “active” members of the LDS Church will be taking their concerns to their stake presidents?

  • Shines

    I know the Book of Mormon is true…..therefore, i know that Joseph Smith and Thomas S. Monson were and are prophets of God. I also therefore know that whatever the Lord says goes. Whether i like it, or understand it right now, or not. If you dont like the way the church is running, and who’s running it, take it up with Him. If you dont like the way the church is running, your freedom allows you to find a faith that would be more appeasing

  • Lynn

    Opposer Laura Pennock isn’t even aware of where she was. That would be the Conference Center, not the Tabernacle. Who really believes these are “active” members of the church?

    • EBK

      Laura Pennock didn’t have tickets to go into the conference center. She was sitting in the tabernacle where many of the overflow went.

      • Lynn

        That makes sense. It would be difficult for inactive members of the church to get tickets to attend in the Conference Center.

  • Zelda Wrench

    Really that was so not cool. Everybody does have rights. The church hasn’t changed anything, it is just making it more easy for us to understand….

  • Márcia

    They said in recent times, many saints fall, and many will fall because of the Ligua. Brothers the Church is true! The Lord has to show you in his anger, to understand that these men are inspired? Not remember Laman and Lemuel? Need to send something the Lord of Heaven to alert them?
    Watch Brothers with slander! Lemre is that we are all imperfect, will not find perfection in homesn, but the teachings.
    What a great sorrow and anguish with these judgments of members against the gospel.

  • Pedro

    I find it interesting that the Lord is only directing the Mormon church which makes up significantly less than 1% of the world’s population. How are the other world religions ever getting by without a “true” prophet or leader guiding them. Christianity- 2.2 billion members; Islam- 1.6 billion; Hinduism-1 billion; Buddhism- 376 million…etc, but yet it is only the 15 million (being Generous) Mormons that have it right?

    • ModerateWoman

      Truth is everywhere. Where there is truth, there is God. We just happen to believe we have the most correct truths to follow.

  • Brian Jorgensen

    Well opposition is allowed and at least numerically avoids the ‘rubber stamp’ mandate.
    From all appearances though this dissent is mostly based on ‘cultural/politically correct’ issues rather than ‘Biblical/ecclesiastical’ reasoning.

    To those of you in Rio Linda it means this dissent is much more ‘hey hey ho ho’ than ‘holy holy holy’.

  • Kris

    I don’t understand the problem of people opposing when they asked who sustains and who opposes. Why do they need to not sustain in that venue if the question is asked there?

  • Shaun

    “I think people have a right to oppose things, I just think there is a time and place to do it–and the time and place to do it is not inside the general assembly” Why shouldn’t they??? When the leadership asks, “Any opposed?”, do you think they should treat that query as if NO ONE should EVER oppose anything?? Why is it perfectly normal to have a 100% positive vote, 100% of the time, but not normal for someone to voice an opposing view when it is asked for?

    Here’s the real question: Why do they even have sustainings at all? If the answer is always expected to be unanimous (or if not, then just go talk to your Stake Pres.), then why bother? What do sustainings even do??? Who’s counting the hands of 22,000 people in 4 seconds to make sure everyone’s votes are accounted for?? Could you imagine if our political process operated this way?!?

    Many of you will say, “Well, golly. Sustaining your Prophet gives you the opportunity to publicly support God’s spokesperson here on earth!” No, it’s an archaic act that should probably just be completely done away with. If we want to sustain our leaders, then why don’t we just show it? The vote is worthless.

  • Nancy Thompson

    Why should a few expect the answer they desire? Doesn’t a majority vote count or is this the old squeeeky wheel theory?

  • JS

    Don Braegger is on point. I wish the other 22k could recognize that they have been lied to. I’m sure the leadership will have no problem to continue this tradition.


    At the end of the day the LDS Church continues to grow and flourish, and three new temples are announced. There will alway be opposition but the measure of the LDS Church’s growth is in the number of temples they continue to add.


    When, through all history, haven’t the prophets been mocked and hated. His enemies hung the only perfect Man that ever lived on a cross and rejoiced at His crucification. Just like today many claim to worship God, but didn’t recognize His prophets.

  • LDS

    Just say what you want, but remember that our testimony wil not be moved by your evil words. You bayots are showing and proving that you deserve the ultimate lowest glory that will God give you in the judgement day. Have mercy on your selves, the time is far spent there is little remaining.. you all fulfill what the scripture says that EVEN THE ELECT will be deceived.

  • west

    when it comes down to it if you are not sustaining them in the meeting or in how you live it is something you need to change in your life to strengthen your testimony!

  • Lynn

    That makes sense. It would be difficult for inactive members of the church to get tickets to attend in the Conference Center.

  • matthew

    There are allot of comments passing judgment upon people collectively and not individually. The world judges collectively, they strip people of there individuality by falsifying information, based on popular opinion, If there is one thing we need less of is the media and news getting involved in matters of personal opinions and believes of the individual, without knowing every detail and every fact. There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom, knowledge without action is just knowledge, it is dead, unless put into action. In a world that abides by the precepts of men, a world that relies on secular knowledge, rather than the eternal wisdom of god, it Is easy to get caught up in the political uproar which leaves us to our own devices and our own credibility.. Since when did we start putting our trust in the arm of flesh or making a mock of the god who created us because of our much wisdom and learning. For when men are learned they think they are wise and put away the things of god, but to be learned is good if men listen to the councils of god. Men who go about stirring up controversy and contention just to be seen of the world, are those who are looking for the praise of the world, there reward is given them of men. Why store up treasures upon the earth where the moths and rust doth corrupt, why make things sacred and holy public to the world, who do not care for things holy but put there cares of men above the cares of god? It is not important to be seen for our good deeds and actions. we do not need to play the greatest hits of our own righteousness to put down the believes of other individuals who obtained there truths through hard work study and prayer. If there is one thing people should be warned against is the selfish pride which does rob us of our dignity and love towards the whole human family.

  • ADL

    I feel so sad for those on here that are trying to offend, make others feel bad, “prove” anything. It shows a lot of hurt and anger that these people are willing to just throw out to injure others. I have my own feelings and actually not going to say one way or the other. We are welcome to our own opinion and it was fine that others opposed the vote. That is their choice. I don’t find it ok to start fighting with one another and trying to hurt another. (If it doesn’t apply to you it sure does to others. )

  • Amravin de Schur

    1. Utah
    > Gender wage gap: 70 cents per dollar (4th worst)
    > Poverty rate, women: 13.6% (13th lowest)
    > Pct. in state legislature: 16.3% (6th lowest)
    > Infant mortality rate: 5.0 per 1,000 births (2nd lowest)

    Utah is the worst state for women. Less than 31% of management positions were held by women in Utah, the second lowest rate nationwide. Women were also less likely than women in the vast majority of states to hold leadership roles in government. Of the 75 seats in the state’s House of Representatives, just six were filled by women last year. And there were just five female state-level senators. In all, women made up just 16.3% of state legislators, less than in all but five other states. Perhaps the lack of women in traditionally high-paying management and high-level government occupations has exacerbated the gender pay gap. While a typical man in Utah earned more than $50,000 last year, most women made 70% — or $35,252 — of that figure, nearly the largest pay discrepancy in the country.

    By Thomas C. Frohlich, Alexander Kent and Alexander E.M. Hess

    Read more: The 10 Worst States for Women – 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/10/16/the-10-worst-states-for-women-2/#ixzz3WgMLq7II

  • milo minderbinder

    A lot of talk split down lines of doctrine versus real world effects. Can anyone from the doctrine camp explain the positive effects of current policy without invoking doctrine? The only real world positive effects I can think of are along the lines of “being part of a cohesive group” which doesn’t really rely on the current gender roles. And the arguments in favor of the current policy seem to have the same tone and even the same specific arguments as the anti-suffrage camp did a hundred years ago.

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