PacSun T-shirt battle not over for Orem mom

OREM, Utah — The Orem woman who bought more than $550 worth of what she calls offensive T-shirts is hoping to change one of Utah’s laws.

Judy Cox bought the shirts from the PacSun store in the University Mall in February.

Cox filed a complaint with Orem City saying the shirts violated community standards, but city attorneys said they won’t cite the store because they couldn’t win in court. They also said the case does not rise to the level of criminal charges.

“This would not be something that we would be able to prosecute criminally without a potential violation of constitutional rights,” Orem City spokesperson Charlene Crozier said. “We just don’t believe that is a lawsuit that we could win and it would be a very expensive undertaking to try.”

On Tuesday, city leaders listened to residents about the issue. Cox said many are concerned about not being able to enforce the laws already on the books.

“What we need to do is we need to strengthen our laws,” Cox said. “It’s obvious that they are not strong enough to uphold what is written on the books, so we need to strengthen those.”

Cox said she plans on returning the shirts as long as they won’t be put back on display. She said if that’s the case, she has other options like destroying them  or selling them and donating the money to organizations that educate people about the harms of pornography.

44 comments

  • bodybysnake

    Oh no, it’s not over. She’s going to ride this publicity train for all it’s worth! She is getting lavished with the attention she has long craved and isn’t giving it up without a fight. Notice the slip up? If she can’t return the T-Shirts she will SELL them by other means. It has nothing to do with making a statement, everything to do with attention seeking and getting to strut around RS as Queen Bee for as long as possible.

    Food for thought: if you live in the People’s Republic of Utah it’s your tax dollars she is wasting by tying up the various forms of Gov’t with this non issue, and it will no doubt be your tax dollars used to enforce the new laws once the Brethren speak out in favor. Lets not worry about actual issues like getting the freeloader panhandlers off the street corners outside the very same mall, or taking care of the homeless and hungry in town, no lets make sure the youth aren’t exposed to the images of consenting adult females wearing bathing suits, a normal occurance to 99.9% of the free World. Funny thing is as someone who grew up in, you know, American Culture and *gasp* witnessed the sights of young ladies wearing bathing suits down at the pool it was quickly a non issue, as it usually is. Then again most of us didn’t have an Anti-American, Anti-Liberty hag like Judy Cox lording over us and oversexualizing the situation. It would be great if her and her ilk would stop trying to make Utah look like an Islamic Republic and would just move to the real deal where they can rest easy in the knowing that women will be completely covered head to toe and have no human rights, that they won’t have to listen to the sinners speak of things such as Freedom, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights nor any other Blasphemous American ideal and where they will never ever have to pay
    lip service to Free Agency again.

    Sorry, I was daydreaming of a perfect World, but I digress. As a Rational, able to think adult I am okay with Pacsun selling T-Shirts of Adult females wearing bathing suits and posing for the camera, just as I am okay with them selling articles of clothing depicting shirtless surfer and skater men for the female customers if they so choose. I recognize they have a right to do so just as I have a right to not buy said products, look at said products or spend my money at their store. It’s one of those GREAT Freedoms my forefathers fought and paid a dear price for, and I am not willing to urinate on their sacrifices as Judy Cox apparently is so eager to do. I am not okay with that, and I certainly am not okay with attempts to Legislate her disagreement into a law wherein the rest of us are forced to not only comply with her Radical views but forced to waste our hard earned money enforcing said Radical views. She is no different than a Far Left Socialist.

    Then again we already waste millions of dollars in Government handouts to married BYU Students living off and gaming the system through College, you would think the Extremists would leave it at that. No, force the rest of us to now also FURTHER regulate private businesses as well as people’s private lives. Ask yourselves, are YOU okay with your money being spent to make a non issue to 99% of the World into an issue while legitimate issues are swept under the rug? THINK about it.

    • skylerbaird

      What I am saying below has very little to do with the article and everything to do with your view of agency. Just to clarify.

      Moral agency… Your agency never was free. It was paid for with a price and not using it wisely is like trampling on it.

      You have some alright arguments but fundamentally you misunderstand agency and mistake it simply for the ability to choose. That is only part of agency. You shouldn’t try to be tempted to learn lessons the hard way, anytime you try to do what is wrong you are willfully disobeying God and you don’t have the same promise. Agency isn’t to stand idly by and let others participate in rampant sin either, only in order to let them learn a lesson the hard way.

      Once a person chooses God they no longer have agency as such. The only thing we as human beings can give God, the ONLY thing is our freedom to choose, to say ‘not my will but thine be done’. Once we choose Him and place our sins on His son. We no longer have the agency to choose good or evil. We are either on His side or against Him.

      Hopefully that makes sense. Essentially we have moral agency until we are baptized. Once we are baptized and choose to always remember him. We made a promise to always do our best to follow him. Anything less is breaking our promise. Of course there is repentance and we can be forgiven, anyone can come back. However this clarification needs to be made. Once we have been on Gods side, we no longer have the luxury of being on neutral territory.

      We all must make that choice.

    • bodybysnake

      It is the Utah Bubble, where some sins are worse than others and where people like Judy Cox have the mental capacity of a young child. In fact there seems to be a lot of that around here, especially down in Utah County. It is interesting, really, how homeless people living behind dumpsters in Provo, Utah Cty business’s making millions of dollars per year pay barely over minimum wage with horrible working conditions, Ensign Corporation(whom is run by tried and true BYU Priesthood holders) just got busted scamming Medicare in their Nursing Homes for millions of dollars are all lesser sins and non issues than a teenager potentially seeing a female wearing a bathing suit. Hypocrites.

      To Mrs . Cox and all her clones: *I* am Offended!

      I am offended that in the admittedly unlikely event I choose to partake of a liquid drink, LEGAL in the United States to those 21 and over I have to sit behind a partition in a restaurant, or if I choose to partake in the privacy of my own home I have to go to a Government building and purchase an overpriced bottle of said drink.

      I am offended that if I so desired to partake of a lesser liquid drink in a can I have to go into a freaking separate room in the back of the store to purchase it.

      I am offended if I chose to go to an establishment that catered to that subject matter I would have to pay each establishment a fee, go to a State run store and pay an outrageous fee for entire bottles of each drink I wish to try, give it to that said establishment and after having them scan my I.D into a Government database have THE STATE decide how much of each drink I am allowed to have.

      Just for the record I don’t drink, nor do I wish to. I am just highlighting the absurdity that those who choose to do so are treated like common criminals in this State. I am offended that they are treated in that matter, and that they are violated just because an extremist minority doesn’t approve.

      I DO however partake of the “hot drink”, namely tea and all those yummy health benefits it is Scientifically proven to provide. I find it highly offensive how in certain gas stations and stores in Utah County it is cleverly hid and made hard to find, but most of my offense is the “moral outrage” directed towards me by cashiers when they see my purchase. In many ways I am looked down upon and treated the same as the town drunk, reeking up the store with body odor as he counts his spare change for the cheap stuff. It is TEA people, a yummy concoction of herbal leaves planted on this either by God that promotes good health. It’s not some dirty little street drug and Yeshua isn’t stamping your passport to the Telestial because you sold it to me.

      I am offended that in Utah I cannot look at magazines while in Grocery store check outs, instead I am forced to stare at hideous blue squares covering some magazines to EVERY Magazine(Macy’s). That offends me, it offends my eyes and it offends my Intelligence.

      I am offended that whenever I go out in Utah County I am bombarded by filthy looking, unkempt mothers dressed like its 1863, or worse unkempt BYU Students walking around in sweats with ratty hair. Good God,
      If you’re going to anoint yourselves Yeshuas chosen at least take 10 minutes to present yourselves as such.

      I am offended I cannot go anywhere in Orem, or Provo, or 90% of Utah without getting a headache caused by masses of unruly children that are allowed to do whatever they “feel” like doing. Bikinis bad, HORRIBLE manners however seems to be A-Okay.

      I am offended that no matter what I am, single, married, or have a girlfriend I am discriminated against in Orem/Provo if I want to rent a place to live. It is offensive that Living in the United States of America I can be told where and with whom I am allowed to live, whom I am not allowed to have over at MY apartment that I am paying for, what I am allowed to drink in the privacy of MY apartment and that oh, guess what, I have to have a Gestapo regularly violate my privacy as well, making sure I don’t have no dreaded Alcohol in the Kitchen or *Gasps* female “garments” laying on the floor of my bedroom. That I can be denied housing based on my gender or that I happen to want to share an apartment with a female I am not married to.

      See Utah Pharisees, that door swings both ways. Hence planks in ones eyes and all of that.

      Truth is I am not offended at all. God gave me and every other human the choice to be offended or not offended. Instead of being offended I choose to role my eyes at the absolute ignorance and stupidity Utah highlights to the rest of the world. Does it get on my nerves? Certainly.

      Now I am only telling you folks this for your own good, although I guarantee it will be ignored. You know that Free Agency deal? It’s actually a BIG deal to God. A VERY big deal, hence WHY he gave it. All these things you’re scared of, that you hate? They are gifts from God as well. He put each and every one of them here so Humans, His grand creation can exercise Free Agency, can become adept at it. When you censor it, ban it and force your fears down everyone’s throats you are disrespecting, not venerating your creator. He has those temptations there for a reason. For you to learn from. Think on it awhile.

      P.S. grow up and stop acting like little children over everything.

      • youtube/mormonfan

        WOW… okay I think this lady’s actions are just as weird as the next guy but half of your comments on here have nothing to do with the T-Shirts and everything to do with your bone to pick with the Church. (1/2 of those further have to do with your alcohol rants)

        Lol realize that not every mormon is this sheltered. I respect that she has freedom to voice her opinion but many of you are being just as narrow minded and bigoted with your comments as you are claiming she is with hers… if you really feel as passionate about your views as she does about hers make some of your own t-shirts I am sure you’ll make a killing right now.

        Peace and love ya’ll

      • bodybysnake

        That is where you are wrong. My “bone” isn’t with the Church, my bone is with the Culture in Utah that has created and continues to create an Anti-Liberty, Anti-American, Anti-Constitution form of Government.

        As for alcohol and my rants regarding it, fact is Prohibition is over, yet Child Molestors and Sex Offenders are given better treatment in Utah than otherwise law abiding Americans who wish to indulge in a type of drink that is legal in this country for Adults to drink.

        You, apparently are one of the Utah TBM Extremists that follow lockstep with everything I am speaking out against. You and Judy and Cathy and the whole lot give us Rational, Sane, and 99% of us not being from the Zion Curtain non Utah Morms a bad name. Unfortunately the world sees Anti-Americans like Judy Cox acting like the moron that she is and the rest of us are left to clean up and deal with the mess.

    • Bettie

      That’s a really awful thing to say. Talk about stereotypical. I am an LDS woman and I happen to think this woman is disgusting and she is one of the reasons why Utah is so screwed up and there are stereotypes like this labeled to certain faiths. This is an issue between Judy Cox and her issue with the right to wear what one wants and sell what you can lawfully sell mixing in with her moral judgements. There’s a line to be drawn somewhere and I don’t think it is fair or appropriate for you to be judging a whole religion based off of someone’s ridiculous actions.

      • LDS: The Book of Moron...

        The is an issue with an over-baring fake religion… Also, why on Earth would you follow a religion that discriminated against women so much? The kool-aid must be strong…

      • bodybysnake

        Actually Bettie, I am LDS myself. I am not attacking the Religion at all. I merely calling out the Culture prevalent in Utah. It is always telling and quite interesting the reactions, usually like yours, you take on a Culture yet those from that Culture take it as a Religious attack, they being unable to separate the two.

        I can assure you the two are quite separate, in fact outside the Morridor they are worlds apart.

  • LDS: The Book of Moron...

    Mormons want anything fun banned, because fun may cause their kids to bail on their cult driven fake religion…

  • Samantha

    My goodness… well everyone is entitled to their own opinions and such that would be freedom of speech hello… but what I don’t understand is why try and bring a clothing store down for selling very popular merchandise. I don’t see a woman in a bikini as pornographic in any way, its meant to be sexy and captivating.. I am not religious and I don’t see the Bible as evil and wrong because I don’t believe in it. What is an attractive female on a shirt going to really do to our society? Not shit! Just go on with your life you don’t have to let the little things in life bother you, because in the end you just look hypocritical and stupid. Okay rant over.

  • bodybysnake

    The irony of it all is Utah will probably miss the 2nd coming. When Jesus swoops down with his long hair, his beard and his penchant for befriending the “lowlifes” in the world Judy and the others will be too busy calling him a filthy degenerate hippy pervert, chilling with Bikini girls and treating them
    With respect and all.

    For the record I AM a Religious person, but I am also aware that along with Free Agency The Lord gave us the gifts of Rationality and Reasoning, with full expectations we use them to the fullest.

  • Nik

    Wait. So, she bought them so that no one else would be able to, and she plans to sell them if the store won’t take them back? That’ll teach em!

  • StinkyPete

    I think we prosecute her for her last name.

    I am offended by it and I don’t appreciate her exposing my children to such foul language.

  • Ching Chong

    Judy Cox is one of the leaders of a Political Action Committee (PAC) and this isn’t her 1st Rodeo. Please stop giving her attention.

  • whoop whoop

    Who the hell does she think she is. what happened to this is a FREE country. I can offed who ever the Hell i want.

  • Fr33 r!ot

    This lady already lost….she bought the shirts haha PAC sun sold the whole inventory on one person :) marketing genius!!! Just make a shirt that offends old women who have no life and nobody to love cause her 20 cats probably hate her just like the rest of us!

  • Jeff

    I can not believe how worked up some of you people get over stupid little things like this and then proceed to spew a bunch of nasty, hateful remarks against each other. So some crazy lady bought a bunch of tee shirts to try and make some point, big deal. Look around at what is going on in this country and you may realize this is nothing worth causing a stroke over. And please, if you are going to insist on making stupid remarks, at least read the entire article and get your facts correct. No where was it stated that this woman was LDS so stop hating on a religion and it’s followers for something they have nothing to do with.

    • LDS: The Book of Moron...

      Um, it’s a person in Utah that is offended by something that is normal in the rest of the country. Of course she is LDS… Only a Mormon would want to ruin anything that is fun…

      • Heather

        Exactly!
        Also, I think I read in one of the previous articles about this idiocy that she is, in fact, LDS.

    • mary ann andrus

      Really “WOW”, that’s the best you can come up with??? With thinking like that no wonder our society has the problems it does. And I’m very sorry for you, or better yet for the women in your life. It’s very obvious you don’t understand what a “beautiful” woman is, or how they should be treated.

      • LDS: The Book of Moron...

        Wow is correct, she is a hag… She is probably just jealous of the hot women on those shifts… No one wants her and her boring garments…

  • Jennifer

    This is why I will NEVER live in Utah. Because of these bigots like Mrs. Cox. If I am not mistaken, wasn’t the Mormon people discriminated against because they believed differently then those who surrounded them? They felt strongly in their beliefs and fought through persecution to have the RIGHT to believe what they felt was right in their hearts….. This isn’t about right or wrong, but about letting others have the same “rights” they deserve! You can not demand rights and equality only for what you personally think is right, but rather have all have their own rights. So stop being a closed minded hypocrite and bigot, and maybe choose a real issue to fight, like war on drugs, poverty, and cancer research…. this is mindless, stupid and pointless.

  • More Man

    If I made a shirt that said… Your God is Stupid. Do you think I could get her to buy all of those too.

  • Me

    To Ms. Cox:
    Please continue sheltering your children from the things they will see on a daily basis in the REAL world. And please, when they are older, and are no longer under mommy’s constant watch, let me know how that works out for them. When they are addicted to REAL pornography because they break free from your apron strings who will you have to blame? I’m sure it will be the porn industry, or the internet’s fault. It couldn’t possibly be yours for repressing and sheltering your kids from what the harsh, cruel, ACTUAL world is like. Maybe instead of blaming a store or a tee shirt manufacturer you should take some accountability for your parenting. Maybe you could take the time to talk to your children about the things they see, and help them learn to react to them. Maybe you could use it as an opportunity to teach your sons and daughters about the modesty you seek, rather than forcing them to be blinded to what their friends and neighbors will show them in person. Maybe you can leave it up to other parents to do the same, rather than taking it upon yourself to shield MY children and deny me MY parenting opportunities, the ones I signed up for with both of my boys. The likelihood that you will do any of the above is basically zero because the fact is you can’t see the big picture. The world is about more than you, Ms. Cox. Your decisions, and your actions affect EVERYBODY around you, whether or not other’s beliefs fall within your acceptable range. Who are you to make choices for me or my family?

  • bodybysnake

    Oh boy, another one. Okay well let me try to break this down for you Cathy.

    Women in Bikinis are not indecent nor is it “Pornography.” It is a common sight to witness on Beaches across the World, in pools across the World and is normal and a non issue to 99% of the World. You and Judy Cox are the abnormal, the extreme minority on the issue. NOT everyone
    else. A little advice my grandfather gave me, “if you are right and everyone else is wrong then 9 times out of 10 it is you who are in the wrong.”

    THINK about it. I know, I know, yadda yadda when blah blah speaks the thinking is over. It isn’t over. It is never over. Thinking is a required daily habit ALL successful, normal and functional human beings must practice to exist in this World. Every creature comfort you enjoy, every Medical discovery that helps you, everything in common life is a result of thinking. The thinking isn’t over, it has only just begun.

    A Woman, or teenage girl in a Bikini, contrary to typical Utah County thought process will not suddenly turn boys and men into stark racing Porno addicts with a Costco tub of Vasoline and bulk orders of Kleenex sitting next to their Computers. Seeing a cute girl at the swimming pool won’t force your sons into rushing up to SLC to discreetly purchase a copy of Playboy. It will however likely turn them into Men, causing them to spend extra amounts of free time between partaking of the Physical exercise and the swimming pool/beach, an obvious attempt to impress said young ladies into going on dates with them. God forbid!

    BTW, which State is leading the Nation in Pornography addiction? By the typical Utah Co train of thought it SHOULD be California and Florida at the top. Of course we all know which state is leading, don’t we? Here is why Cathy: because of the repressive Culture, the Culture YOU are demanding the Government enforce on the rest of us. The very same Culture that over sexualizes EVERYTHING into some sickening perversion.

    The areas where sexuality and human bodies are treated in a mature, intelligent manner don’t have as bad of an issue. In fact my wife and I conducted a Social experiment recently on this very issue, largely to prove a point. I had her carry around a notebook and pencil and document every time an attractive girl dressed normally(as in make up, hair done up, cute clothes that accentuated her God given femininity) was spotted in Utah(not a very often occurance) and my reaction. Without fail I would look and be amazed. Afterwards we took a vacation to Arizona, where people dress and act normally(the men as well, there wasn’t even a fraction of the soft cross dressing in males seen down there that there is here in Utah. Correct, there weren’t College aged men walking around in tight effeminate pants tucked into Cowgirl boots with frilly teenage girl haircuts, a normal sight around BYU) and act normally. The first few days I looked when attractive females passed by, then a funny thing happened. It became normal, I re-integrated into normal society and it became rare for me to girl watch while on vacation. We have repeated this experiment numerous times since, including other people’s reactions. It is fairly level across the board. In areas where the female body is actually respected and treated like the great thing that it is far fewer men gawked, glanced or stared.

    Btw, just to cover it as well, out in the real world girl watching is actually a normal activity for young men. In fact it is regularly encouraged by fathers, grandfathers, uncles and older brothers when their hormones are racing and they are reaching the age to appreciate it. It is a GOOD thing for them
    to do, it turns them into normal young men. Chasing after and appreciating cute Women is a male right of passage. Averting thy gaze at every turn, pretending normal feelings for “cute girls” is unnatural and treating marriage as a 9 to 5 baby making job? It creates socially awkward, sexually frustrated and confused BYU Students in skinny jeans and Farrah Fawcett haircuts sneaking Pornography sessions in their all male apartments with the bedroom door closed. Alternatively it also creates suicide bombers who chop off female “naughty bits” and “men” who stone their wives to death over immaterial reasons. Your choice and perhaps you, Mrs. Cox and all the other nut jobs would be happier living over in one of those Countries.

    Or you could just continue the longstanding Utah practice of defecating on the U.S. Constitution at every turn, as well as those who fought and died for that Constitution. But I forgot, the extremists political savior was a coward who got a deferment from fighting to defend this country because he “had” to go walk around wearing a shiney name tag and white dress shirt instead when he was drafted. Matter of fact that was the Battle Cry of MOST of the extremists, wasn’t it? No wonder they want to spit upon Lady Liberty at every turn.

    It’s for the children, Comrades. So that makes it okay.

  • little boy blue

    Yes indeed it is a horrible thought to think that we will expose the kids to watch the business pour the drink. Just let them watch it be consumed at the table. Thats like it will be ok for the kids to watch a drug user shoot up as long as they don’t watch them fill the syringe…..
    Stupid laws. If you don’t like the store STAY OUT!!! If you don’t like liquor STAY AWAY from the places that serve. Let them post a sign on the door saying we serve liquor. The church will not let outsiders into the Temple but the will send out information on the their belief. So I guess we should make a law that is ok for that but not for the ones who have different views. The ones that are trying to change this only want their ways legal and to force others rights to be squashed. Do your thing and let others do theirs!

  • arealpatriot

    This has absolutely nothing to do with “protecting the children” and has everything to do with in issue that just makes you angry Cathy. Get your head out of the sand- you are clueless.

  • Matt Zukowski

    “pornography is not a freedom of speech issue”

    Yeah, but what is pornography? It’s not well defined and IIRC it’s a “I’ll know it when I see it” rule. And I’m pretty sure shirts for sale to children are not pornography.

    Victoria Secret is no more pornography than the Sears catalog or JCP. If you’re selling underwear it’s reasonable to see what it looks like on a person.

    Playboy is NOT pornography. Hustler is. The difference, well people engaging in coitus, one one is not ashamed to subscribe to Playboy. Playboy has very stellar articles and advertisements.

    “to put up walls in businesses mixing alcoholic drinks in order to protect children from that sight”

    You understand that’s totally nuts right? What parent wouldn’t give their child a mixed NON ALCOHOLIC drink with fresh fruit? Utah has a history of bad laws with alcohol, like mandating drinks be made with little bottles and calling each bottle a shot regardless of size? Non residents who didn’t know better got totally shivefaced.

    “This isn’t about their freedom of speech. It’s about the safety of kids.”

    This is disingenuous because you’re trying to assert child safety issues to limit freedom of speech and assert somehow a child seeing a girl in a bikini presents an objective risk.

  • Emily

    This is stupid. If you don’t want your children wearing them, don’t get them for them. How dare she try to control what others wear. If we all dressed like her no one would get laid.

  • Heather

    Exactly!
    Your comment actually reminded me of a video I saw on You Tube awhile back. I wish I could remember what it was called so you could watch it.
    Basically this (I think) British guy comes to SLC dressed like a Mormon missionary and knocks on doors to spread the great news about atheism. Of course, people lose their minds over it. They threaten to call the police on him, and I believe in one clip, someone actually threatens him physically. Yet, those same families go out, and send their children out, to do the exact same thing. Of course, since they are preaching Mormonism, that’s perfectly fine. It’s quite an interesting series of videos.

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